Good points. ACID is still useful to discuss wrt to database managers, because there are databases out there which fail to provide the basics, not just the kind of corner cases discussed re mySQL. In fact, there's a popular Mac-derived thing popular in vertical market development, called 4th Dimension, which fails on all 4 counts ;-) -- Scott Ribe scott_ribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.killerbytes.com/ (303) 665-7007 voice