I'll date myself so you all may know from where I am coming. My first lesson
in binary math took place in a classroom in 1958. Since then I have
witnessed a lot that has since swept under the bridge.
This thread reminds me of the discussion that surrounded the complexity of
using the first spreadsheets (the precursor to today's Databases) that, at
the time, could best be done by Wang. In the 80s Wang built an empire around
their computers holding their own spreadsheet software. The system was
complex and required specially trained operators in order to accomplish even
the most basic of tasks.
Then along came Windows. Wang collapsed. All of those specially trained
operators were forced to find other employment. This major dislocation to
peoples lives and livelihood was an overnight phenomenon.
In my 47 years of being somewhat aligned to the software industry this story
was repeated over and over again.
There is a lesson to be learned from the Wang experience.
People want tools to do tasks. They do not want to spend their own time (or
their own money to hire others) to build, design, repair or change the tools
that they need just in order to accomplish their own work - the work they
know best and from which they make a living. A good tool - a perfect tool -
is like a hammer. Its use is immediately known and it can be deployed
quickly, accurately and with little or no specialized training.
So I caution all to not make light of newbies who are searching for good
tools (not even perfect tools - yet) to do the work that needs doing. The
world will not sit by and continue to pay for Wang operators.
Bob Pawley
Big Time Newbie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andreas" <maps.on@xxxxxxx>
To: "Joe" <svn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <pgsql-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: Win32 users?
Joe schrieb:
What I am surprised is that this is (apparently) not discussed in the
manual or the FAQ. The only indirect reference I found is in section
14.6.2 where it states --in a Unix context-- that "you should add [the
PostgreSQL bin directory] into your PATH".
Well, perhaps because the windows platform is relatively recent addition
to the Postgres habitat?
On the other hand I'd guess, that people who NEED that detailed
handholding would not bother to install a full blown SQL server or at
least would prefer to play with PGAdmin3.
The lack of such a reference gives me the impression that, at this time,
native Win32 users are technically knowledgeable, because a real newbie
may not figure out how to address the "unrecognized command" createdb
problem.
He/she would be a computer newbie then?
A related issue that I thought would be mentioned in the manuals/FAQ is
where to add the bin directory in the PATH. The 14.6.2 section, only by
example, implies it should be prepended to the PATH. However, you
suggest it should be appended. I know of one other database that has a
'createdb' command so if I were to append it, it would still not find the
PostgreSQL version.
... and if I had a card-game that happens to be called "createdb" ...
I'd allways append because this wouldn't unrecognized breake any software
that was there before.
I guess one can't naively manipulate crucial system info as PATH without
any basic knowledge what could be affected.
While I generally would append it to PATH, I'd still put it before the
CygWin-Bin if both systems are installed. ;)
Postgres' doc could mention this, too.
Btw. if you have 2 DBMS with a createdb command then you simply can't use
a global PATH.
Then you have to create 2 batch commands that call CMD and set the path
just for this cmd-session.
Someone who likes to run 2 DBMS parallely should figure this out, too.
This again may indicate the tech-savvy expected of PostgreSQL users.
Well, yes ... ;)
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