We should focus on ensuring that the code and documentation is free from slurs and culturally specific idioms. We should hold gatekeepers accountable for making decisions based on technical merit and not the person who proposed an idea or submitted a patch.
We can't control the behavior of the internet as a whole. We can control our codebase and our gatekeepers.
Jim
On June 5, 2018 12:06:54 PM EDT, James Keener <jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Do we need a code of conduct like this, or so we need a more general dispute resolution process? Something that is public and aimed at mediating disputes (even ones about bad conduct) and removing repeat offenders. To be honest, larger issues of harassment should be handled by the police.
A code of conduct is basically "be excellent to each other", but what that means is never going to be well codified in a document anyone can produce. It's why we have a judiciary in the "real world".
I don't participate too much here, but I've never see a group implement a code of conduct go well. I'm a fairly socially liberal person, but have been told in one group that my views as a cis, hetero, white, middle class make aren't welcome in discussions about getting more women or minorities to participate. Specifically there was a discussion in that group about how since women often bare the burden of child care, even when both partners work, that side projects as a hiring criteria are sexist. I mentioned that as an involved father I also find little time to work on side projects and that the issue is more about those with kids than specifically women and was essentially run out of the group.
Another time, same group, someone was discussing guns, and someone else said that this kind of discussion is why women don't participate much. I mentioned that I know more women who own guns, hunt, and target shoot than I do men who do that. I was again told to shut up and banded for a few days when I pressed as to why a not-male-centric discussion was being censored in the name of sexism and fairness.
How will this CoC handle these situation? I obviously offended people and had no intention of doing so. I was also told that the moderators/CoC commitee would act fairly, and I obviously believe I was mistreated by them. Forgive me for not believing in the benevolence of the governors.
JimOn June 5, 2018 11:49:06 AM EDT, Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Peter Geoghegan <pg@xxxxxxx> wrote:It is of course possible that a member of the committee could act in
bad faith for any number of reasons. You can say the same thing about
any position of leadership or authority within the community, though.
That hasn't really been much of a problem in my experience, and I see
no reason for particular concern about it here.I thought the same thing as a member of the Django community. It adopted a CoC that I vocally warned was dangerous and far more likely to be abused than provide any benefit. I was shocked when the very first time it was ever invoked it was by one of the founders of the project (whom I previously personally respected) and it was absolutely used in the manner that I had feared which was to shut someone up whose opinion he did not like rather than any legitimate concern. Unfortunately this is not such an unusual circumstance as one might hope in these projects or conferences. It is impossible to separate the concept of political correctness from these CoCs I find and they are much more dangerous things than they appear. We should tread with extreme cautious about adopting such a thing.-- Ben Scherrey
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
