Hello People, My thanks to the several people who gave suggestions for how to solve my initdb problem. 1. "Phillip Smith" <phillip.smith@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> suggested the problems stemmed from: the 'postgres' user not having a correct shell login setup. It looks like the home directory is set to /dev/null which would explain all the "not a directory" errors. You'll need to edit the postgers user to have a proper login shell (/bin/bash maybe?). I had previously been told something along these lines, and so had already given postgres a shell of /bin/bash (using NetInfo Manager). It is only since making that change that I have been able to login as postgres at all. I note, however, that postgres' home is still set to /dev/null, and would be interested in trying to re-set that to something possibly more useful, except I don't know what to use--any suggestions, anyone? 2. "'James Herbers'" <james@xxxxxxxxxx> suggested: as root you have to chown /Library/postgreSQL8/ -R (this is what you do in Linux). As shown below, the binary installer for pg 8.2.4 seemed to already set that up correctly: Acorn:/Library/PostgreSQL8 root# ls -l total 0 drwxr-xr-x 27 postgres admin 918 12 Jun 15:19 bin drwx------ 2 postgres admin 68 11 Jun 08:10 data drwxr-xr-x 3 postgres admin 102 12 Jun 15:19 doc drwxr-xr-x 21 postgres admin 714 12 Jun 15:19 include drwxr-xr-x 20 postgres admin 680 12 Jun 15:19 lib drwxr-xr-x 3 postgres admin 102 11 Jun 08:10 log drwxr-xr-x 4 postgres admin 136 12 Jun 15:19 man drwxr-xr-x 3 postgres admin 102 12 Jun 15:19 share James also suggested I should: try this when changing to the postgres user: su - postgres the hyphen gives you an environment for the postgres user. Unfortunately, I either used the wrong syntax, or it doesn't work for some other reason: Acorn:/Library/PostgreSQL8 root# su - postgres su: no directory I wonder whether the above line, and the following, relate to the lack of a home for the postgres user? Acorn:/Library/PostgreSQL8 root# su postgres su: /dev/null/.bashrc: Not a directory 3. Another list member suggested off-list that: If you run the command as `sudo su postgres -c 'initdb'` then it should run the command as the postgres user but not require the postgres account to be a full account, which it requires if you just do su postgres and then run the command seperately... But I got the following: Acorn:/Library/PostgreSQL8 root# sudo su postgres -c 'initdb' su: line 1: initdb: command not found When I tried that again, but as acorn (my username) instead of root, terminal more promisingly said I had to specify the directory. What finally appeared to work, was the following: Acorn acorn 3 acorn$ sudo su postgres -c 'initdb -D /Library/PostgreSQL8/data' This gave me a pid, but looking in Activity Monitor that pid does not appear (nor anything else that looks like pg). I note that the directory /Library/PostgreSQL8/data/ still contains nothing, so for example this fails: pg_ctl start -l logfile -D /Library/PostgreSQL8/data pg_ctl: could not open PID file "/Library/PostgreSQL8/data/postmaster.pid": Permission denied I earlier downladed & installed the Postgres_Startup_Item.pkg, but either initdb didn't really work, or there's some other problem. I guess what I'm asking now is: how do I know if initdb has worked, and what do I do next to start pg? Sorry for the length. Cheers! Joe