Am Donnerstag, 25. Oktober 2007 schrieben Sie: > Krischan Keitsch schrieb: > > Am Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2007 schrieb Ralph Angenendt: > >> John Rudd wrote: > >>> Kahlil Johnson wrote: > >>>> Wow, still no OGG.... when will maemo people ever learn. Who cares > >>>> about AAC, give us OGG. > >>> > >>> Huh. I have many AAC files. I have no OGG files. Why should even > >>> remotely care about OGG? > >> > >> How weird. I have no AAC files but a big bunch of ogg files, why should > >> I even remotely care about AAC? > >> > >> IOW: What is the point you are trying to make? > >> > >>> Or is this one of those "you absolutely need it for interesting content > >>> in Europe, but it's absolutely useless for content in the Americas" > >>> type situations? > >> > >> Huh? What does it have to do with America/Europe? It's about *open* and > >> *free* music codecs - neither AAC nor MP3 are free. > >> > >> And I don't really see the problem with supporting *also* ogg. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Ralph > > > > I couldn't agree more! > > Well, me too, though I think the issue is a little tight to the > hardware. As you know the TI-DSP inside the TI-CPU is heavily used for > decoding multi-media stuff. > > Most if the used codecs are heavily patent and license contaminated. > This is not only a problem for Nokia but for all hardware manufacturers > that want to deal with this kind of stuff. The process is tedious, long > and hard to a) implement the codecs in a non-patent-vialoating way (i.e. > follow the patent) and afterwards licensing (try to find out what an MP3 > decoder will cost and you know my point here). > So what most manufacturers do, since they are not the first ones to make > this stuff, they rely on third parties to figure out all that stuff for > them and then just buy the package. > So what I assume what has happened is that Nokia simply bought/licensed > a pre-configured package of codecs for the TI DSP. They will probably > not have developed the codecs themselves, just the interface to them. > This way they only have very little influence on the codecs, their > number or which codecs they get. The most popular ones are of course > included, like MP3 and AAC. > But since there is no money to make with sublicensing OGG-Vorbis, there > will only be little to none suppliers for a ready made TI-DSP OGG-Vorbis > codec engine. So it did not make it into the product. > > The licensing argument that came up in another thread is probably just a > misunderstanding. It could be meant like "Since Nokia had to choose that > package due to licening issues they were not able to individually pick > additional codecs like Ogg". Some take-it-or-leave-it deal. > That sounds like a plausible explanation. Sad but true. > That's my view on the status quo. > > Concerning the future I think that TI and Nokia could do more to help > the community to fill the gap. There would be the possibility for the > community to do this development on their own, i.e. write a DSP > application doing OGG decoding. I can remembder that someone on the -dev > mailinglist started this but cannot remember the name anymore, sorry. > What Nokia could do to help here is to push TI more to release more > development information to interested DSP core developers (and to the > public of course). There is a DSP SDK available from TI, but buried down > somewhere on some development page for which you have to sign up first > before being able to download. The license agreement you have to sign > during the process is anything than clear and might suggest that your > are not allowed to develop something with this version that you intent > to redistribute (even open source) - so only for internal evaluation. > For a real developer license you have to buy the quite expensive > software development kit. So also an official statement from TI would be > needed that this SDK version can be used for open source development and > that the resulting work can be freely distributed in source code and > binary form. Only then Nokia can pick this up and include it in future > products. > > > Again this is my personal view from what I read on the MLs and from my > experience with companies and licening... > > > Krischan > > Cheers > nils faerber Ogg vorbis / tremor is just one of many codex. So the problem is more general. It is about a closed device on the internet tablets with rarely any information available. I acknowledge the commitment from Nokia towards open source and if they could they would have released the necessary information yet. They are caught in the constrains like many other companies. I keep that in mind but I still ask them to release specs and info's! I take their commitment toward open source serious. The Openmoko project has a diffrent approach: They try (at least) to use only hardware with open source drivers or at least freely available specs. That makes it a open platform (without a dsp btw) ;-) The world is neither 1 nor 0 - there is something in between. Krischan
