On Mon, 2013-04-15 at 21:53 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:01:04PM +0800, Zhang Rui wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Mon, 2013-04-08 at 08:26 -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 07:40:08PM -0700, Srinivas Pandruvada wrote: > > > > Hi Guenter, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your quick response. Please see my answers in-line. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > On 04/05/2013 08:24 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote: > > > > >On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 01:09:20PM -0700, Srinivas Pandruvada wrote: > > > > >>On 04/04/2013 12:43 PM, Guenter Roeck wrote: > > > > >>>On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 12:11:25PM -0700, Srinivas Pandruvada wrote: > > > > >>>>This is clear that there is reluctance in adding thresholds in coretemp sysfs, > > > > >>>>during previous attempts. Proably because of lake of use cases. > > > > >>>>But this time use case may be more compelling. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>We have many small form factor devices like ultrabooks, slate PCs in the market. > > > > >>>>Unfortunately these devices reach maximum temperature with relatively less > > > > >>>>workloads, causing BIOS to do thermal throttling. There are real performance > > > > >>>>issues due to aggressive BIOS action to control thermals and also thermal breakdown > > > > >>>>in some cases. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>Even the most expensive laptops, don't have correct ACPI thermal configuration, > > > > >>>>so that kernel thermal driver can act. In some case even the trip point is higher > > > > >>>>than critical temperature setting. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>Intel has developed several drivers, which can be used to cool the system very efficiently. > > > > >>>>They include RAPL based cooling driver, Powerclamp driver and P state driver. > > > > >>>>To utilize these cooling device a closed loop user mode program is required, which > > > > >>>>will utilize these method and dynamically compensate for high CPU temperatures, > > > > >>>>without relying on any configuration data. > > > > >>>>One such solution is developed is "Linux thermal daemon". More details can be > > > > >>>>obtained from > > > > >>>>"https://github.com/01org/thermal_daemon/blob/master/ThermalDaemon_Introduction.pdf";. > > > > >>>>This daemon polls for cpu temperature and apply compensation once the CPU reach target > > > > >>>>temperature. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>This polling can be mostly avoided, by getting notification for the temperature, where > > > > >>>>it needs to wake up and get ready for apply compensation. In most of the normal use > > > > >>>>cases, there may not be any threshold events. So very minimal number of user space > > > > >>>>notification for thermal thresholds. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>This patch adds two entries to coretemp sysfs. > > > > >>>>tempX_notify_threshold_1 > > > > >>>>tempX_notify_threshold_2 > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>These two settings acts on "Package level", not on core level. So it will only appear > > > > >>>>if there is support for package temperature. Many of recent Intel processors, support > > > > >>>>package temperatures > > > > >>>>When any valid value is written to these files, it will directly set corresponding CPU MSR, > > > > >>>>in the corresponding package and read back directly from MSR. Since package MSR, affects > > > > >>>>all cores in package, setting will be applicable to all CPU's in the package minimizing > > > > >>>>read, writes and notifications. Also package threshold interrupts are enabled only when, > > > > >>>>a non zero value is written to thresholds. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>Once thresholds are violated, it uses a rate control of 5 seconds, reducing the number > > > > >>>>of interrupts, when temperature is hanging around trip point. Using the sticky log bit, > > > > >>>>it sends kboject uevent change notification for corresponding package sysfs. > > > > >>>>Once the thermal daemon receives notification, it can change to new threshold or act > > > > >>>>immediately to reduce CPU temperature. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>Srinivas Pandruvada (4): > > > > >>>> x86, mcheck, therm_throt: Process package thresholds > > > > >>>> hwmon: (coretemp) Add threshold support > > > > >>>> hwmon: (coretemp) : Add notification support > > > > >>>> drivers/hwmon/coretemp : Debug fs interface > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> arch/x86/include/asm/mce.h | 7 + > > > > >>>> arch/x86/kernel/cpu/mcheck/therm_throt.c | 50 ++++- > > > > >>>> drivers/hwmon/coretemp.c | 319 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-- > > > > >>>> 3 files changed, 361 insertions(+), 15 deletions(-) > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>Key question: Why does the thermal subsystem not work for you ? > > > > >>Thermal is bigger issue in Ultrabooks, Slate PCs and other small > > > > >>form factor devices. > > > > >>Linux ACPI thermal driver depends on ACPI configuration to activate > > > > >>active/passive control. So if you have garbage data or not optimized > > > > >>data, the current Linux driver can't control thermals. There are > > > > >>multiple platforms with bad ACPI data. Some of them have "ACPI > > > > >>threshold > critical temp" > > > > >> > > > > >I wasn't talking about ACPI, I was talking about the Linux thermal subsystem > > > > >in drivers/thermal. There is no single mention of "ACPI" in that directory. > > > > > > > > <Thermal drivers also resides outside this directory. ACPI also > > > > registers as thermal zone similar to other example you mentioned > > > > below. ACPI is the only means to configure per platform thermal trip > > > > points in thermal zones in PC platform. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Currently all these systems, rely on BIOS fan and T state control. > > > > >>Once T states are used the performance gets hurt. Also we had cases > > > > >>of thermal breakdown. > > > > >> > > > > >>In addition there are several new methods to cool the system, > > > > >>developed by Intel and are in latest Linux kernel. They are > > > > >>specially designed to cool the system when needed. > > > > >> > > > > >So, again, why can't you use the thermal subsystem ? > > > > <Thermal zone needs to show temperature. This will be duplicate > > > > what coretemp.X is showing. I want to prevent identical information > > > > be displayed at two different sysfs> > > > > Also the db8500 example you are giving, uses a pre-configured > > > > thresholds loaded during probe(). > > > > There is no thermal ABI to set thresholds at run time. Basically > > > > when a temperature is above a trip temp, corresponding cooling > > > > devices will be activated. > > > > So I still I have to write a platform driver to set thresholds, and > > > > then registers with thermal zone. This will show as another > > > > packagetemp.x at sysfs like coretemp.x. > > > > > > > > So please let me know how to set dynamic thresholds? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The db8500_thermal driver in drivers/thermal is quite similar to what > > > > >you try to accomplish. I would suggest to look into it and use a similar > > > > >approach. I really don't see how this fits into the hwmon subsystem. > > > > <Is this logic based on that hwmon shouldn't have write interface > > > > and used only for monitoring? I think some hwmon driver already > > > > have write interface like gpiofan.> > > > > > > That isn't the point. hwmon is static in nature, not dynamic. Its scope is > > > hardware monitoring, not thermal management. This is what the thermal subsystem > > > is for. Yes, presumably you would need a platform driver to set the thresholds. > > > Another question, though, would be if you want or need a user space component in > > > the first place or if you can implement all required functionality in a thermal > > > driver. > > > > > Agreed. > > > > I read the slides at > > https://github.com/01org/thermal_daemon/blob/master/ThermalDaemon_Introduction.pdf > > > > According to your slides, you have four kinds of cooling devices, > > 1. RAPL cooling device driver > > 2. P states control > > 3. Intel power clamp driver > > 4. T states > > and four trip points (according to the picture in page 9). > > > > I think you will use, say RAPL for trip point 0 (the bigger the number > > is, the higher temperature the trip point is), both RAPL and P state > > control for trip point1, ..., all of the cooling devices for trip point > > 3, etc, right? > > > > IMO, all of these actions fit into the Linux/Thermal subsystem > > naturally. > > > > so my question would be why do you prefer to do it by user space > > component? > > > Even if a user space component is needed or desired, I would much prefer > if the thermal subsystem would be enhanced to support it It does today. a sensor driver can register a thermal zone without any cooling devices. and using "userspace" governor, so that the thermal subsystem will invoke a callback when the temperature crosses a trip point, instead of throttling/de-throttling cooling devices. But if you are talking about export events to userspace directly, you're right that it is not done in thermal subsystem today. there is an API thermal_generate_netlink_event() for platform thermal drivers to generate a thermal netlink to userspace, but it seems that no one is using this for now. thanks, rui > instead of > creating a hwmon overlay and duplicate what the thermal subsystem > tries to accomplish. > > I think we will at some point need a neat way of passing hwmon > information into the thermal subsystem (neat -> without requiring > from each hwmon driver to also register with the thermal subsystem), > but that is a different problem. > > Thanks, > Guenter > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-pm" in > the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html _______________________________________________ lm-sensors mailing list lm-sensors@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx http://lists.lm-sensors.org/mailman/listinfo/lm-sensors
