So I think there's something wrong with wireless networking, and (likely) in particular turning off wireless. And I think the problem came in this merge window, because now my machine hangs on shutdown. My new desktop is otherwise working fine, but it has some unnecessary wireless capability on the motherboard, in the form of a Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 module that I don't use (since I end up using wired gig ethernet instead). And while debugging the shutdown hang (symptom: systemd waits forever for NetworkManager and WPA supplicant), I turned off the WiFi. And what do you know, things went all sideways. They went sideways because everything that wants the rtnl lock seems to just hang. Example: kworker/57:2 D 0 1592 2 0x80004080 Workqueue: events_power_efficient reg_check_chans_work [cfg80211] Call Trace: __schedule+0x30b/0x4b0 ? schedule+0x77/0xa0 ? schedule_preempt_disabled+0xa/0x10 ? __mutex_lock+0x264/0x410 ? psi_group_change+0x44/0x260 ? reg_check_chans_work+0x1d/0x300 [cfg80211] ? __switch_to_asm+0x42/0x70 ? process_one_work+0x1fa/0x3f0 ? worker_thread+0x25d/0x480 ? kthread+0x121/0x130 ? process_one_work+0x3f0/0x3f0 ? kthread_blkcg+0x30/0x30 ? ret_from_fork+0x22/0x30 kworker/60:2 D 0 1926 2 0x80004000 Workqueue: ipv6_addrconf addrconf_verify_work Call Trace: __schedule+0x30b/0x4b0 ? schedule+0x77/0xa0 ? schedule_preempt_disabled+0xa/0x10 ? __mutex_lock+0x264/0x410 ? addrconf_verify_work+0xa/0x20 ? process_one_work+0x1fa/0x3f0 ? worker_thread+0x25d/0x480 ? kthread+0x121/0x130 ? process_one_work+0x3f0/0x3f0 ? kthread_blkcg+0x30/0x30 ? ret_from_fork+0x22/0x30 NetworkManager D 0 4329 1 0x00004000 Call Trace: __schedule+0x30b/0x4b0 ? schedule+0x77/0xa0 ? schedule_preempt_disabled+0xa/0x10 ? __mutex_lock+0x264/0x410 ? __netlink_dump_start+0xa7/0x300 ? rtnl_dellink+0x3c0/0x3c0 ? rtnetlink_rcv_msg+0x375/0x3d0 ? poll_freewait+0x35/0xa0 ? do_sys_poll+0x58f/0x5f0 ? rtnl_dellink+0x3c0/0x3c0 ? __ia32_compat_sys_ppoll_time64+0x120/0x120 ? ip_output+0x6a/0xd0 ? ip_mc_finish_output+0x120/0x120 ? avc_has_perm+0x34/0xa0 ? rtnetlink_bind+0x30/0x30 ? netlink_rcv_skb+0xfb/0x130 ? netlink_unicast+0x1bf/0x2e0 ? netlink_sendmsg+0x385/0x410 ? __sys_sendto+0x21f/0x230 ? move_addr_to_user+0x97/0xc0 ? alloc_file_pseudo+0x9b/0xd0 ? sock_alloc_file+0xc4/0x100 ? __x64_sys_sendto+0x22/0x30 ? do_syscall_64+0x5e/0xd0 ? entry_SYSCALL_64_after_hwframe+0x44/0xa9 and perhaps most interestingly, wpa_supplicant is waiting for some of those workqueues that are waiting for the lock: wpa_supplicant D 0 2162 1 0x00004000 Call Trace: __schedule+0x30b/0x4b0 ? schedule+0x77/0xa0 ? schedule_timeout+0x22/0x150 ? ttwu_queue+0xf4/0x120 ? wait_for_common+0xac/0x110 ? __flush_work+0x200/0x230 ? put_pwq+0x70/0x70 ? __cfg80211_unregister_wdev+0x95/0x130 [cfg80211] ? ieee80211_if_remove+0xa3/0xe0 [mac80211] ? ieee80211_del_iface+0xe/0x20 [mac80211] ? rdev_del_virtual_intf+0x2b/0xc0 [cfg80211] ? genl_rcv_msg+0x451/0x570 ? genl_unbind+0xb0/0xb0 ? netlink_rcv_skb+0xfb/0x130 ? genl_rcv+0x24/0x40 ? netlink_unicast+0x1bf/0x2e0 ? netlink_sendmsg+0x385/0x410 ? ____sys_sendmsg+0x26b/0x290 ? __sys_sendmsg+0x128/0x180 ? selinux_socket_setsockopt+0xc3/0xd0 ? __cgroup_bpf_run_filter_setsockopt+0x99/0x290 ? netlink_setsockopt+0x38/0x4d0 ? __sys_setsockopt+0x11b/0x1b0 ? do_syscall_64+0x5e/0xd0 ? entry_SYSCALL_64_after_hwframe+0x44/0xa9 which explains why systemd waits for that one too. So something seems to have never released the rtnl lock. In fact, I suspect it's exactly that wpa_supplicant itself that deadlocks on it and holds the rntl lock while it does that "flush_work()". Which in turn waits for things to go away, but they'll never go away because they need the rtnl lock. That wpa_supplicant is holding. If I were a betting man, I'd suspect it's due to commit 6cd536fe62ef ("cfg80211: change internal management frame registration API"), which seems to move that flush_work(&wdev->mgmt_registrations_update_wk); into __cfg80211_unregister_wdev(). But honestly, that's just a guess. I'd bisect this and verify things, but I'm really hoping I don't have to. I still have a number of pull requests for the merge window, so instead I'm sending this email out with my current guesses, and I hope someody will say "Yeah, you're right, the fix is already pending", or "No Linus, you're barking up completely the wrong tree, but I think I know what the problem is". Btw, I'm not a networking person, but I have to say, I've seen rtnl lock problems enough over time even as an outsider to have grown to really hate that thing. Am I wrong? It really seems to get involved much too much, and held in really awkward places. Am I wrong? Linus