On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:58:40PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
>
> Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> > On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 10:13:59PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >>
> >> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 06:42:00PM -0300, Thiago Jung Bauermann wrote:
> >> >> I rephrased it in terms of address translation. What do you think of
> >> >> this version? The flag name is slightly different too:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM_NO_TRANSLATION This feature has the same
> >> >> meaning as VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM both when set and when not set,
> >> >> with the exception that address translation is guaranteed to be
> >> >> unnecessary when accessing memory addresses supplied to the device
> >> >> by the driver. Which is to say, the device will always use physical
> >> >> addresses matching addresses used by the driver (typically meaning
> >> >> physical addresses used by the CPU) and not translated further. This
> >> >> flag should be set by the guest if offered, but to allow for
> >> >> backward-compatibility device implementations allow for it to be
> >> >> left unset by the guest. It is an error to set both this flag and
> >> >> VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > OK so VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM is designed to allow unpriveledged
> >> > drivers. This is why devices fail when it's not negotiated.
> >>
> >> Just to clarify, what do you mean by unprivileged drivers? Is it drivers
> >> implemented in guest userspace such as with VFIO? Or unprivileged in
> >> some other sense such as needing to use bounce buffers for some reason?
> >
> > I had drivers in guest userspace in mind.
>
> Great. Thanks for clarifying.
>
> I don't think this flag would work for guest userspace drivers. Should I
> add a note about that in the flag definition?
I think you need to clarify access protection rules. Is it only
translation that is bypassed or is any platform-specific
protection mechanism bypassed too?
> >> > This confuses me.
> >> > If driver is unpriveledged then what happens with this flag?
> >> > It can supply any address it wants. Will that corrupt kernel
> >> > memory?
> >>
> >> Not needing address translation doesn't necessarily mean that there's no
> >> IOMMU. On powerpc we don't use VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM but there's
> >> always an IOMMU present. And we also support VFIO drivers. The VFIO API
> >> for pseries (sPAPR section in Documentation/vfio.txt) has extra ioctls
> >> to program the IOMMU.
> >>
> >> For our use case, we don't need address translation because we set up an
> >> identity mapping in the IOMMU so that the device can use guest physical
> >> addresses.
OK so I think I am beginning to see it in a different light. Right now the specific
platform creates an identity mapping. That in turn means DMA API can be
fast - it does not need to do anything. What you are looking for is a
way to tell host it's an identity mapping - just as an optimization.
Is that right? So this is what I would call this option:
VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM_IDENTITY_ADDRESS
and the explanation should state that all device
addresses are translated by the platform to identical
addresses.
In fact this option then becomes more, not less restrictive
than VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM - it's a promise
by guest to only create identity mappings,
and only before driver_ok is set.
This option then would always be negotiated together with
VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM.
Host then must verify that
1. full 1:1 mappings are created before driver_ok
or can we make sure this happens before features_ok?
that would be ideal as we could require that features_ok fails
2. mappings are not modified between driver_ok and reset
i guess attempts to change them will fail -
possibly by causing a guest crash
or some other kind of platform-specific error
So far so good, but now a question:
how are we handling guest address width limitations?
Is VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM_IDENTITY_ADDRESS subject to
guest address width limitations?
I am guessing we can make them so ...
This needs to be documented.
> >
> > And can it access any guest physical address?
>
> Sorry, I was mistaken. We do support VFIO in guests but not for virtio
> devices, only for regular PCI devices. In which case they will use
> address translation.
Not sure how this answers the question.
> >> If the guest kernel is concerned that an unprivileged driver could
> >> jeopardize its integrity it should not negotiate this feature flag.
> >
> > Unfortunately flag negotiation is done through config space
> > and so can be overwritten by the driver.
>
> Ok, so the guest kernel has to forbid VFIO access on devices where this
> flag is advertised.
That's possible in theory but in practice we did not yet teach VFIO not
to attach to legacy devices without VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM. So all
security relies on host denying driver_ok without
VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM. New options that bypass guest security are
thus tricky as they can create security holes for existing guests.
I'm open to ideas about how to do this in a safe way,
> >> Perhaps there should be a note about this in the flag definition? This
> >> concern is platform-dependant though. I don't believe it's an issue in
> >> pseries.
> >
> > Again ACCESS_PLATFORM has a pretty open definition. It does actually
> > say it's all up to the platform.
> >
> > Specifically how will VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM_NO_TRANSLATION be
> > implemented portably? virtio has no portable way to know
> > whether DMA API bypasses translation.
>
> The fact that VIRTIO_F_ACCESS_PLATFORM_NO_TRANSLATION is set
> communicates that knowledge to virtio. There is a shared understanding
> between the guest and the host about what this flag being set means.
Right but I wonder how are you going to *actually* implement it on Linux?
Are you adding a new set of DMA APIs that do everything except
translation?
> --
> Thiago Jung Bauermann
> IBM Linux Technology Center
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