I might give mingw a looky some time. I messed with cygwin a while back and I didn't mind the overall environment all that much but I hated the installer! I found the pick list to be completely inaccessible. I couldn't track the selection status of any of the list items within each package category. I sure didn't want to install every single package so when I had such a hard time picking packages, I finally gave up on it. I also wrote to the developers on the support list about the installer and the response was the program was so complex and intrenched that it would be nearly impossible to change it. So I am no longer interested in doing anything with cygwin. My only other experience with the windows API was with Visual Basic and the internal object browser. I found quite a bit of information in the help system within the browser. That would probably next to impossible to pull that info without the Microsoft development environments such as in Visual Studio. Perhaps the tutorials Greg mentions is a big help. -- HolmesGrown Solutions The best solutions for the best price! http://holmesgrown.ld.net/