You asked about needing hard disks. I would say, at the very least you gotta have hard disks in your machines. You need to load the basic software for running the router and IP tables, etc. You can go into a lot of these neighborhood computer stores which might sell used parts and find a hard disk for most any size. I find these days that a 5 gig sells for almost as much as a new 40 gig so beware. If the BIOS won't work at all with one of these new drives you might have to try and find one of these smaller drives. For any decent linux box where you want to recompile the kernel and such, you better have at least a one gig or more. Obviously, the more space, the more you can do with varied setups and all that. BTW, I also dislike the long name on the list reply-to name. I just did a list reply from mutt and mutt picked up that awful long name. I editted it out before starting on this message. If any mutt users don't have that reply option turned on to see the address when you do a 'l' or 'r' command, just catch it on the way out when you hit 'y' to send the message. -- HolmesGrown Solutions The best solutions for the best price! http://ld.net/?holmesgrown