Friends, Well not sure what happen and exactly what broke what. I noticed that I couldn't get ssh to let me into any machines on the network, notice I couldn't get Speakfreely or any ftp client functioning, but I could ping machines in and out of the network. So I assumed something got broken when I did an dist-upgrade on my box; this is Debian Sid. In any case after the upgrade things seemed ok so assumed all was well. These problems showed up nearly 12 hours later. In any case I couldn't figure out what the deal was and so recalled I needed ip multi-casting in the kernel so went ahead and cooked a new kernel. That was the only option I added in. So upon reboot I found the doubletalk external came up chattering, but then I couldn't get it to shutup for nothing and then the box just seem to hang after the buffer ran out of chatter. I got the box up with the old kernel and all seemed back to normal. The old kernel is 2.4.19 the new was 2.4.20. Now the 2.4.20 was working yesterday so I wonder if compiling a new kernel caused a problem. I did notice the symlinks for linux, asm, and scsi were no longer in /usr/include, but instead actual directories were there. I don't know if this matters, but I went ahead and removed them and pointed the symlinks back to the kernel tree. So, any thoughts? I'll report if I can get the new 2.4.20 kernel working that I'm creating now. tia, Scott