I think Chuck is basically correct about the history thing. The web pages although important for new comers are not all that useful for experienced speakup geeks. Another problem is personnel so to speak. We have many many more projects than volunteers. We have offered up the web maintainance project to many folks over the years all of whom have started out gung-ho only to taper off after a little time. I can only cover so much area and truthfully, I'd much rather code than edit web pages so they have to do. Now saying that I don't think they are really all that bad and some portions get maintained by Janina and are really pretty good. Okay, here comes the hook line. Wait for it! Do I hear you volunteering to take it under your belt and treat them poor ol' web pages the way they deserve to be treated? Cause if I don't... well... just shut up then. 'grin' Kirk -- Kirk Reiser The Computer Braille Facility e-mail: kirk at braille.uwo.ca University of Western Ontario phone: (519) 661-3061