Hi Chris, I'm not going to get involved in the "bookshare wars', but since you were chastizing others on this list because most people use WINDOWS and not linux, I think its only fair to point out that your computer science department is very nonstandard. Though I am a meteorologist, not a computer science person, I know many computer science students in the past and the present. Teaching WINDOWS programming is very nonstandard. I would guess that at least 90 percent of the schools teach programming on a UNIX variant of some kind. In the past thre was a fair amount of people using VMS. However, a lot of beginning C and C++ classes did use Turbo/Borland. WINDOWS programming is much more difficult than UNIX programming, so I suppose you are to be congratulated for making it through such a tough curriculum. Jim Wantz