Make yourself look foolish by not reading my messages before you reply to them. Chris Peterson _______________ The Space Report Internet and satellite delivered news from space. Visit our web site at www.TheSpaceReport.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lee" <amanda@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: Re: list noise (was Re: FW: USA: Online book-sharing service for the blind borrows a page from Napster) > Hmmm so now we have a new List Moderator I daresay? > > > > On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Chris Peterson wrote: > > > Is this a list about linux or a list about speakup? If its a list about > > Linux, I don't need it. I was spacifically interested in learning about > > speakup, and the other projects associated with it. I thought this was the > > place to go for that. > > > > I thought this, because there are a number of other lists where this > > discussion might be appropriate. I've pasted in some info about them incase > > you weren't aware of them. > > The BLINUX Mailing Lists > > blinux-announce > > Topic: announcements dealing with blind support under Linux (new software, > > conferences etc.). > > Moderated list, no noise. > > Low number of posts. > > If you want to stay in contact with BLINUX. > > blinux-develop > > Topic: software development enabling the Linux user who is blind. > > > > This might be a place to go for a linux developer to write an unpack util > > for bookshare. > > > > Unmoderated list, currently really low traffic... > > > > blinux-list > > Topic: themes which contain the words Linux. and blind. For details please > > read the > > > > This might be a good place for this discussion. > > > > blinux-FAQ. > > Off topic: general Linux questions. > > Unmoderated list, high traffic - high noise. > > Postings to blinux-announce will be posted here. > > > > This might also be a good place for this discussion. > > > > I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but there are a lot of us who > > receive hundreds, if not thousands, of e-mails every day and we need to be > > able to go through them quickly. Thats why there isn't just a general > > mailing list that the entire world is on. It would be kaos. This is > > becoming kaos and I'm sure its not something Kirk has time to deal with and > > nobody is saying anything about it except me. > > > > Also, addressing the issue of starting a project with everybody in mind, let > > me tell you right now that it isn't possible. For one thing, to please > > everybody would mean that you'd never get off-the-ground. What about those > > people who are using some other Unix-like OS such as FreeBSD? What about > > those using dos? Or a Braille N Speak? Or an apple II? Or a Makintosh? > > Or a Comodor 64? Or an Amiga? Or an Atari? How about a Vax? (I do that at > > school once in a while)... The list goes on for ever and ever. Just > > because you're vocal about Linux doesn't mean that it should be a priority. > > The fact is, though, that it appears to be a priority. So, why are you > > wining about it? They're not trying to retrofit as you're referring to it. > > And, I get the distinct impression that you have very little knowledge of > > software development or web design. > > > > Btw, I've gone and read your web page and what I see there seems to varify > > this. This isn't a big deal and it doesn't mean that you don't have > > valuable input. However, it does mean that there are things about the > > process that you don't fully understand. I'm trying to help to explain some > > of them to you so you might be able to restructure your input to be of help > > to those in charge of the project. > > > > This isn't the same as adding a wheelchair ramp to a building that wasn't > > designed to have one. Personally, I know how that can fail badly. Writing > > software to support another OS isn't the same thing at all. It could be, > > though, if someone without the right experience tried to do it. You might > > get something like Word Perfect for Linux was. That would be bad... I > > think that is probably why they're trying to be careful about getting it > > done right. > > > > Regarding the web site. Your assuming that the web site was inaccessible > > because it had a message about IE 5.5 was the wrong approach. It would've > > been more helpful to ignore that message and determine if the site was > > really accessible, or not. Then you could go to the webmaster and explain > > why that message was wrong, or what you found to be broken so that he/she > > could fix the problem. I see, though, that you didn't even try before you > > complained. Why should someone give you any credibility if you don't have > > any evidence to support your case? > > > > I see that you're a teacher. What is needed, here, is for you to teach > > those involved how to make things better. Just complaining with no > > direction is not helpful to them. It would be like a student constantly > > saying "I don't get it", without explaining what they don't understand. You > > have to go through it over and over again, trying to figure out how to > > explain it in a way that your student will understand. This is frustrating > > for you and for the student. In the sam way, this discussion is frustrating > > to me, and to the rest of the list that hasn't participated in it. > > > > So far, I've counted four participants in this thread. Since I know there > > are more than four people on the list, I suggest that the discussion might > > not be appropriate here. Still, I am not a moderator and have no authority > > to make you move. Its just a suggestion. > > > > Now, let me explain some things about myself that may give me some > > particular credibility, or not... I am a college student. I've spent a > > great deal of time teaching myself how to learn. For me, this means > > learning to ask questions in a way that clearly explains how to teach a > > sighted professor how to teach me. > > > > >From that statement, you may deduce that I am blind. You would be right. I > > can't see a darn thing, but this isn't a big deal. > > > > I have also acted as a teacher. Every summer I work with a program which > > teaches students with visual impairments to use technology. This usually > > involves Windows, but has involved Braille N Speaks, and other such devices. > > I hope, from what I learn here, to be able to teach my students that Linux > > can be an alternative. > > > > I'm a computer science major. This means that I spend most of my life > > programming. Again, most of this is in Windows, but I'm slowly learning > > about programming in Linux so I have the ability to work to make Linux as > > usable as Windows for all our every-day tasks. Its a slow process, because > > Linux is different from anything I've delt with before. > > > > I'm rambling. If you've gotten this far in my message, you're probably sick > > of me. Well, I don't blame you. I've spent a great deal of time on this > > all because I want to see that this discussion, if it must take up space in > > my inbox and I must exercise my delete finger on it, goes in a constructive > > direction. I think that is what we all want, so lets try to make that > > happen. Also, lets try to minimize the noise that others have to hear when > > reading this list. It makes me want to sumarily delete messages from this > > list, or unsubscribe, which I don't believe is any more constructive than > > the noise that clogs this list. > > > > Chris Peterson > > _______________ > > The Space Report > > Internet and satellite delivered news from space. > > Visit our web site at www.TheSpaceReport.com > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ann Parsons" <akp at eznet.net> > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:52 PM > > Subject: Re: FW: USA: Online book-sharing service for the blind borrows a > > page from Napster > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I did that very thing, Mr. Petersen, and I believe that we may be > > > getting somewhere. If my complaints are too loud for you, I'm sorry. > > > You see, I happen to believe strongly that no matter what one does to > > > aid persons with disabilities, the primary directive should be > > > Universal Access. This means that when you start a project, you build > > > it so that it is accessible to all from the get-go, not a project that > > > needs to be retro-fitted. Retro-fitting has been the way of > > > making materials, buildings, transportation and everything else > > > accessible. It's time it stopped, frankly, stopped now! We have to > > > think in terms of *all* users, not just the fortunate few, all users, > > > that includes every single person who might want to access whatever > > > the heck it is. > > > > > > If I am disappointed in something, I say so. I believe that Bookshare > > > is making an effort to remedy the problem, and having the discussion > > > on here is right because it involves access to something via Linux. > > > <smile> What better place to find programmers for Linux than on a > > > Linux list? What better place to find programmers for making > > > something accessible than on a list devoted to accessibility of the > > > Linux system to persons who are blind? > > > > > > Ann P. > > > > > > P.S., It may interest you to know that I thought Janina was writing > > > to me privately last night. That's how come I was so frank in my > > > post. <smile> Seems my mail blooper started a whopping discussion, > > > though. So, I have continued it. > > > > > > A.P. > > > > > > -- > > > Ann K. Parsons > > > email: akp at eznet.net ICQ Number: 33006854 > > > WEB SITE: http://home.eznet.net/~akp > > > "All that is gold does not glitter. Not all those who wander are lost." > > JRRT > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > >
