Thank you. I will, if you don't mind, cross post this to the ACB list because there is some mis-information presented. This is what I was looking for ha! How refreshing from a software developer's background and as a blind user, how utterly like a breath of clean fresh air! Amanda Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" <tward@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:35 PM Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd) > Hi, let me come at this from another angle. In the Windows world a piece of > software is written, and the company then expects the screen reader > manufacturer to modify their screen reader to support their app. Some such > as Microslop include MSAA support to help the screen reader along after the > fact. > In Gnome 2 we want to write the screen reader, and sstandardize all the tool > kits, documentation, and even the sample source code to clearly show someone > how to write an an accessible app, or to upgrade their app so that it works > with Gnopernicus. So rather than making the screen reader work with the app > we want the desktop and apps to work with the screen reader. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Amanda Lee <amanda at shellworld.net> > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:00 PM > Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd) > > > > So in broad terms, the features are equivalent to MSAA? However, there's > a > > cleaner interface than what MSAA provides because of the overal > > standardization of what is already standardized in Linux??? > > > > > > Amanda Lee > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Thomas Ward" <tward at bright.net> > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:43 PM > > Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd) > > > > > > > Hi. Wo, hold on here! > > > > > > Ok, let me explain what we are doing with Gnome to clarify things. > First, > > > the gtk tool kit, from which Gnome is written in, is being rewritten so > > > that anyone using the standard controls, widgets, etc will build > > accessible > > > apps from the get go. Gnome has also been upgraded with speech hooks > that > > > will tell the screen reader what is being presented. Finally, Sun will > be > > > introducing something like the Java Access bridge so that Gnopernicus > can > > > handle Java applications under Linux. Does this clear things up? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Charles Crawford <ccrawford at acb.org> > > > To: <speakup at braille.uwo.ca> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 2:27 PM > > > Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. I understand what you are saying. Does this mean > that > > > > there would not be a fix for X-Windows like the MSAA in Windows? > Would > > we > > > > need some kind of major off-screen model? > > > > > > > > -- charlie Crawford. > > > > > > > > At 11:09 AM 1/22/02 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >Actually, being familiar with X myself, I'll answer this one. > > > > > > > > > >Xwindows, is a misnomer, in reality, it's just an X server, and > > clients. > > > The > > > > >server draws to the screen, and sends user input to the clients. The > > > clients > > > > >are the applications, the clients are usually on the same machine as > > the > > > > >server, but they don't have to be. > > > > > > > > > >X itself is nothing more than a network protocol for sending graphic > > data > > > to > > > > >an X workstation, the X protocol has no provisions for button, text > > box, > > > or > > > > >any widgets for that matter, it has: line, circle, filled circle, > > > rectangle, > > > > >filled rectangle, pixmap, etc... > > > > > > > > > >X also sends keyboard input and mouse click locations to the > > applications > > > > >that own the windows they occur in. Beyond that, X's only other > > > capability > > > > >is to send text glyphs (rendered in a given font) back to > applications > > > that > > > > >request them. > > > > > > > > > >As for widgets, and controls, and a nice unified API for writing > > > programs, > > > > >you need a "toolkit library". What's a toolkit library you ask? A > > better > > > > >question might be "what isn't a toolkit library?" > > > > >First of all, there are a lot of toolkit libraries out there, some > are > > > very > > > > >simple (Athena) while some have a full-blown callback API and can be > > > adjusted > > > > >with themes (GTK, GTK+) and some are object-oriented C++ based APIs > > (QT). > > > > >They all basically do the same thing, provide > > > functions/objects/structures to > > > > >the application to draw typical GUI widgets, and send draw requests > to > > > the X > > > > >server. Here's the hairy part, each toolkit has its own look and > feel, > > > has > > > > >its own API, has its own conventions, and basically has its own > > > everything. > > > > > > > > > >There's also the seperate window manager, which is simply another X > > > client > > > > >which registers a few special functions with the X server so it can > get > > > the > > > > >location and owner of each window and add decorations and task > > switching > > > > >behavior. Some (most) window managers do more than this, but they all > > do > > > at > > > > >least this. > > > > > > > > > >Windows, on the other had, has the equivalent of the toolkit library > > and > > > > >window manager built into the kernel (sort of) and most applications > > > either > > > > >use that, or a custom one that is very similar to it. > > > > > > > > > >I'm sure this is incomplete, but I've already been wracking my brain > > for > > > an > > > > >hour over it, so I'll close here, feel free to ask questions or tell > me > > > about > > > > >parts that are unclear. > > > > > > Good to see you on this list. I wonder if there are some > > folks > > > > > out there > > > > > > familiar with XWindows to share the kind of navigation that goes > on > > > with > > > > > > it? I have no idea. Is it the same icons and rdio buttons and > all > > of > > > > > > tht? How is it different than windows and how much more easy > would > > > access > > > > > > be to develop in the XWindows environment? These are important > > > questions > > > > > > to your point I imagine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >Speakup mailing list > > > > >Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup at braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > >
