On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:46:33AM +0200, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote: > On Friday 14 May 2010, Mark Brown wrote: > > Is that really the issue? The ones I've looked at have mostly suffered > > from being built on 2.6.29 and needing refreshes for current kernel APIs > > or from general code quality issues - I don't recall ever looking at one > > and thinking that the wakelocks were the one issue. ... > > Chances are that if the driver is useful people will start using it in > > non-Android systems anyway. > You're missing the point IMO. Even if they are only used on Android, there > still is a problem if they don't go into the mainline, because that leads to > code divergence that's growing over time and will ultimately create an entire > ecosystem that's independent of the mainline. See my first paragraph there. My point here is that we appear to have the standard vendor BSP ecosystem problem here rather than a wakelock problem. It's fairly common in the embedded space to get a whole bunch of work done which doesn't make its way into mainline due to a SoC vendor having produced a BSP for their SoC which is based around a particular kernel version which never gets updated. This means users with that SoC can't boot anything newer until someone does the work of mainlining support for the system, meaning that development on systems using that SoC gets stuck on an old kernel which mainline drifts away from. Users find it hard to contribute back since they can't run current code easily and often have to jump through serious hoops to backport drivers from newer kernels. If the SoC is successful enough then you do get something of an ecosystem around the BSP, though eventually that usually results in the community doing the mainline merge. > We've been successful in avoiding that for quite some time and I don't think > we should allow that to happen right now because of the opportunistic suspend > feature. This is still a work in progress in the embedded space (where wakelocks are primarily relevant). Many of the major vendors are working in the right direction here, but it's far from universal and it's not something that it's easy for vendors to change overnight. > I'm not a big fan of suspend blockers myself, but let's face it, _currently_ > there's no alternative and we need to stop the trend, the sooner the better. I don't think this is a major part of the trend - like I say, the fact that people have been working with an old kernel version is generally a much more substantial issue than the wakelocks in the code I've seen. > > As people have already observed wakelocks > > needn't have any practical effect on the running system so if the > > drivers are broken without wakelocks they'd be broken anyway. > You need to prove the reverse, ie. that a driver working correctly with > wakelocks will also work correctly without them, which is not a given. If they can be compiled out then the updates really ought to be trivial. If not I really need to go back and reexamine what's going on here to make sure I understand what drivers are supposed to do, I have to confess that I haven't looked too closely at the driver side API yet. > > It's not particularly pretty but it'd deal with the driver merge > > side of things. > Again, I don't see why you hate that feature so much. What is there to worry > about? As I have said previously I'm not actively opposed to merging wakelocks at this point. My major concern has been addressed, I now agree with most of what the PM guys are saying - it's not the nicest thing ever but it works for now. The issue was that when I originally noticed the patch series was being considered for mainline again was that one effect of using it in a mobile phone with the standard Linux embedded audio subsystem would be to break use cases such as audio on voice calls, which isn't really desirable, and that there was no roadmap for how to fix that or any other subsystems with similar issues. This didn't seem like it would have been a good situation given that the major user is expected to be Android, which is mainly for mobile phones. Since we seemed to all agree that no other subsystems were affected, meaning nothing general was required, I've now implemented support in the subsystem for ignoring suspends for some audio paths (this should appear In the next merge window). This should mesh well with wakelocks. _______________________________________________ linux-pm mailing list linux-pm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-pm
