On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 3:30 PM Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 07, 2020 at 12:26:19PM +0800, Kai-Heng Feng wrote: > > > On Oct 6, 2020, at 03:19, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 02:40:32AM +0800, Kai-Heng Feng wrote: > > >>> On Oct 3, 2020, at 06:18, Bjorn Helgaas <helgaas@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > >>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 04:24:54PM +0800, Kai-Heng Feng wrote: > > ... > > >> I wonder whether other devices that add PCIe domain have the same > > >> behavior? Maybe it's not a special case at all... > > > > > > What other devices are these? > > > > Controllers which add PCIe domain. > > I was looking for specific examples, not just a restatement of what > you said before. I'm just curious because there are a lot of > controllers I'm not familiar with, and I can't think of an example. > > > >> I understand the end goal is to keep consistency for the entire ASPM > > >> logic. However I can't think of any possible solution right now. > > >> > > >>> - If we built with CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y, would that solve the > > >>> SoC power state problem? > > >> > > >> Yes. > > >> > > >>> - What issues would CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y introduce? > > >> > > >> This will break many systems, at least for the 1st Gen Ryzen > > >> desktops and laptops. > > >> > > >> All PCIe ASPM are not enabled by BIOS, and those systems immediately > > >> freeze once ASPM is enabled. > > > > > > That indicates a defect in the Linux ASPM code. We should fix that. > > > It should be safe to use CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y on every system. > > > > On those systems ASPM are also not enabled on Windows. So I think > > ASPM are disabled for a reason. > > If the platform knows ASPM needs to be disabled, it should be using > ACPI_FADT_NO_ASPM or _OSC to prevent the OS from using it. And if > CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y means Linux enables ASPM when it > shouldn't, that's a Linux bug that we need to fix. > > > > Are there bug reports for these? The info we would need to start with > > > includes "lspci -vv" and dmesg log (with CONFIG_PCIEASPM_DEFAULT=y). > > > If a console log with CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y is available, that > > > might be interesting, too. We'll likely need to add some > > > instrumentation and do some experimentation, but in principle, this > > > should be fixable. > > > > Doing this is asking users to use hardware settings that ODM/OEM > > never tested, and I think the risk is really high. > > What? That's not what I said at all. I'm asking for information > about these hangs so we can fix them. I'm not suggesting that you > should switch to CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y for the distro. > > Let's back up. You said: > > CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y ... will break many systems, at least > for the 1st Gen Ryzen desktops and laptops. > > All PCIe ASPM are not enabled by BIOS, and those systems immediately > freeze once ASPM is enabled. > > These system hangs might be caused by (1) some hardware issue that > causes a hang when ASPM is enabled even if it is configured correctly > or (2) Linux configuring ASPM incorrectly. Could this be: 1044 PCIe ® Controller May Hang on Entry Into Either L1.1 or L1.2 Power Management Substate Description Under a highly specific and detailed set of internal timing conditions, the PCIe ® controller may hang on entry into either L1.1 or L1.2 power management substate. This failure occurs when L1 power management substate exit is triggered by a link partner asserting CLKREQ# prior to the completion of the L1 power management stubstates entry protocol. Potential Effect on System The system may hang or reset. Suggested Workaround Disable L1.1 and L1.2 power management substates. System software may contain the workaround for this erratum. Fix Planned Yes Link: https://www.amd.com/system/files/TechDocs/55449_Fam_17h_M_00h-0Fh_Rev_Guide.pdf > For case (1), the platform should be using ACPI_FADT_NO_ASPM or _OSC > to prevent the OS from enabling ASPM. Linux should pay attention to > that even when CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y. > > If the platform *should* use these mechanisms but doesn't, the > solution is a quirk, not the folklore that "we can't use > CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y because it breaks some systems." > > For case (2), we should fix Linux so it configures ASPM correctly. > > We cannot use the build-time CONFIG_PCIEASPM settings to avoid these > hangs. We need to fix the Linux run-time code so the system operates > correctly no matter what CONFIG_PCIEASPM setting is used. > > We have sysfs knobs to control ASPM (see 72ea91afbfb0 ("PCI/ASPM: Add > sysfs attributes for controlling ASPM link states")). They can do the > same thing at run-time as CONFIG_PCIEASPM_POWERSAVE=y does at > build-time. If those knobs cause hangs on 1st Gen Ryzen systems, we > need to fix that. > > Bjorn
