On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 8:51 AM Chuck Lever III <chuck.lever@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
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> > On Oct 6, 2024, at 7:36 PM, NeilBrown <neilb@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 07 Oct 2024, Chuck Lever III wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Oct 6, 2024, at 6:29 PM, Pali Rohár <pali@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Monday 07 October 2024 09:13:17 NeilBrown wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 07 Oct 2024, Chuck Lever wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 08:52:20AM +1000, NeilBrown wrote:
> >>>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2024, Pali Rohár wrote:
> >>>>>>> Currently NFSD_MAY_BYPASS_GSS and NFSD_MAY_BYPASS_GSS_ON_ROOT do not bypass
> >>>>>>> only GSS, but bypass any authentication method. This is problem specially
> >>>>>>> for NFS3 AUTH_NULL-only exports.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The purpose of NFSD_MAY_BYPASS_GSS_ON_ROOT is described in RFC 2623,
> >>>>>>> section 2.3.2, to allow mounting NFS2/3 GSS-only export without
> >>>>>>> authentication. So few procedures which do not expose security risk used
> >>>>>>> during mount time can be called also with AUTH_NONE or AUTH_SYS, to allow
> >>>>>>> client mount operation to finish successfully.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The problem with current implementation is that for AUTH_NULL-only exports,
> >>>>>>> the NFSD_MAY_BYPASS_GSS_ON_ROOT is active also for NFS3 AUTH_UNIX mount
> >>>>>>> attempts which confuse NFS3 clients, and make them think that AUTH_UNIX is
> >>>>>>> enabled and is working. Linux NFS3 client never switches from AUTH_UNIX to
> >>>>>>> AUTH_NONE on active mount, which makes the mount inaccessible.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Fix the NFSD_MAY_BYPASS_GSS and NFSD_MAY_BYPASS_GSS_ON_ROOT implementation
> >>>>>>> and really allow to bypass only exports which have some GSS auth flavor
> >>>>>>> enabled.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The result would be: For AUTH_NULL-only export if client attempts to do
> >>>>>>> mount with AUTH_UNIX flavor then it will receive access errors, which
> >>>>>>> instruct client that AUTH_UNIX flavor is not usable and will either try
> >>>>>>> other auth flavor (AUTH_NULL if enabled) or fails mount procedure.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This should fix problems with AUTH_NULL-only or AUTH_UNIX-only exports if
> >>>>>>> client attempts to mount it with other auth flavor (e.g. with AUTH_NULL for
> >>>>>>> AUTH_UNIX-only export, or with AUTH_UNIX for AUTH_NULL-only export).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The MAY_BYPASS_GSS flag currently also bypasses TLS restrictions. With
> >>>>>> your change it doesn't. I don't think we want to make that change.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Neil, I'm not seeing this, I must be missing something.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> RPC_AUTH_TLS is used only on NULL procedures.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The export's xprtsec= setting determines whether a TLS session must
> >>>>> be present to access the files on the export. If the TLS session
> >>>>> meets the xprtsec= policy, then the normal user authentication
> >>>>> settings apply. In other words, I don't think execution gets close
> >>>>> to check_nfsd_access() unless the xprtsec policy setting is met.
> >>>>
> >>>> check_nfsd_access() is literally the ONLY place that ->ex_xprtsec_modes
> >>>> is tested and that seems to be where xprtsec= export settings are stored.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not convinced check_nfsd_access() needs to care about
> >>>>> RPC_AUTH_TLS. Can you expand a little on your concern?
> >>>>
> >>>> Probably it doesn't care about RPC_AUTH_TLS which as you say is only
> >>>> used on NULL procedures when setting up the TLS connection.
> >>>>
> >>>> But it *does* care about NFS_XPRTSEC_MTLS etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> But I now see that RPC_AUTH_TLS is never reported by OP_SECINFO as an
> >>>> acceptable flavour, so the client cannot dynamically determine that TLS
> >>>> is required.
> >>>
> >>> Why is not RPC_AUTH_TLS announced in NFS4 OP_SECINFO? Should not NFS4
> >>> OP_SECINFO report all possible auth methods for particular filehandle?
> >>
> >> SECINFO reports user authentication flavors and pseudoflavors.
> >>
> >> RPC_AUTH_TLS is not a user authentication flavor, it is merely
> >> a query to see if the server peer supports RPC-with-TLS.
> >>
> >> So far the nfsv4 WG has not been able to come to consensus
> >> about how a server's transport layer security policies should
> >> be reported to clients. There does not seem to be a clean way
> >> to do that with existing NFSv4 protocol elements, so a
> >> protocol extension might be needed.
> >
> > Interesting...
> >
> > The distinction between RPC_AUTH_GSS_KRB5I and RPC_AUTH_GSS_KRB5P is not
> > about user authentication, it is about transport privacy.
>
> RPC_AUTH_GSS_KRB5I is Kerberos user authentication plus
> Kerberos integrity protection.
>
> RPC_AUTH_GSS_KRB5P is Kerberos user authentication plus
> Kerberos confidentiality.
>
> So, both of these pseudoflavors select Kerberos user
> authentication (versus, say, RPC_AUTH_UNIX, which does
> not).
I'd argue they also select on-the-wire protection. It just happens
that they use the session key for a user credential.
I'd agree with Neil, in that the 'p' refers to on-the-wire privacy.
>
>
> > And the distinction between xprtsec=tls and xprtsec=mtls seems to be
> > precisely about user authentication.
>
> No: xprtsec authentication is /peer/ authentication. User
> authentication is still set via sec= . See the final
> paragraph in Section 4.2 of RFC 9289.
True, but for krb5[ip] there is a (mis)use of a user principal for the
client's machine credential. (The user principal that does SetClientID
or ExchangeID.)
--> I'd argue that this user principal is really a client machine (or peer,
if you prefer) credential.
--> I think that the host based service principal in the client's keytab
is a pita and maybe one of the reasons that krb5[ip] doesn't get
used that much.
>
>
> > I would describe the current pseudo flavours as not "a clean way" to
> > advise the client of security requirements, but they are at least
> > established practice.
> >
> > RPC_AUTH_SYS_TLS seems to me to be an obvious sort of pseudo flavour.
> >
> > But I suspect all these arguments and more have already been discussed
> > within the working group and people can sensibly have different
> > opinions.
>
> Yes, these arguments were discussed within the WG, and
> I even wrote a draft (now expired) that treated the
> various combinations of TLS and user authentication
> flavors as unique pseudoflavors. The idea was rejected.
I'll encourage NeilBrown to make comments related to the D. Noveck
security draft over on nfsv4@xxxxxxxx. (I'll admit I have great difficulty
getting around to reading/commenting on these drafts, but I will try to
get around to the security one one of these days.)
The piece I'd like to see is mtls being accepted as a reasonable
alternative to krb5i/krb5p for SP4_MACH_CRED.
Personally, I think the pseudo-flavors make sense.
Maybe I/Neil can illicit further discussion w.r.t. them, rick
>
>
> > Thanks for helping me understand NFS/TLS a bit better.
> >
> > NeilBrown
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>> So there is no value in giving non-tls clients access to
> >>>> xprtsec=mtls exports so they can discover that for themselves. The
> >>>> client needs to explicitly mount with tls, or possibly the client can
> >>>> opportunistically try TLS in every case, and call back.
> >>>>
> >>>> So the original patch is OK.
> >>>>
> >>>> NeilBrown
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chuck Lever
>
>
> --
> Chuck Lever
>
>
