Hello Uwe,
Am 15.11.24 um 08:29 schrieb Uwe Kleine-König:
Hello Werner,
On Fri, Nov 15, 2024 at 07:09:49AM +0100, Werner Sembach wrote:
Am 15.11.24 um 05:43 schrieb Greg KH:
On Thu, Nov 14, 2024 at 11:49:04AM +0100, Werner Sembach wrote:
Am 14.11.24 um 11:31 schrieb Uwe Kleine-König:
the kernel modules provided by Tuxedo on
https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers
are licensed under GPLv3 or later. This is incompatible with the
kernel's license and so makes it impossible for distributions and other
third parties to support these at least in pre-compiled form and so
limits user experience and the possibilities to work on mainlining these
drivers.
This incompatibility is created on purpose to control the upstream
process. Seehttps://fosstodon.org/@kernellogger/113423314337991594 for
a nice summary of the situation and some further links about the issue.
Note that the pull request that fixed the MODULE_LICENSE invocations to
stop claiming GPL(v2) compatibility was accepted and then immediately
reverted "for the time being until the legal stuff is sorted out"
(https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers/-/commit/a8c09b6c2ce6393fe39d8652d133af9f06cfb427).
As already being implied by that commit message, this is sadly not an issue
that can be sorted out over night.
We ended up in this situation as MODULE_LICENSE("GPL") on its own does not
hint at GPL v2, if one is not aware of the license definition table in the
documentation.
That's why it is documented, to explain this very thing. Please don't
suggest that documenting this is somehow not providing a hint. That's
just not going to fly with any lawyer who reads any of this, sorry.
You are right, that's why when I became aware of the situation this Monday https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers/-/commit/9db67459510f18084694c597ff1ea57ef1842f4e
We should differentiate two situations here: The one is from Monday
when you realised that a non-GPL2 compatible kernel module is unable to
use many functions. The other (and IMHO more relevant) is when GPLv3 was
chosen knowing it's incompatible with the kernel's license. I would
argue that you were aware of that since at least March this year
(https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers/-/issues/137#note_1807179414).
Yes I was aware of this for in-tree modules, I was not aware of this for out of
tree modules:
https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers/-/issues/137#note_2066858305
Sadly I did not get corrected on my mistake back then, otherwise I would have
started then to get things moving and not only last Monday.
And in my opinion
https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers/-/commit/a8c09b6c2ce6393fe39d8652d133af9f06cfb427
was a wrong reaction. I received this as a statement that your company's
goals are important enough to not adhere to the kernel's license and the
open source spirit. This was what triggered me to create the patch under
discussion.
The revert was done not to block the release of the fan control for the Sirius,
and as already mentioned in the commit: It is a temporary action.
I hoped to gain more time. TBH I feel a little bit of regret doing this
experimentation in public now, as I would have had probably more time if i
didn't (no offense).
I got the gears to resolve this into moving (me playing devils advocate here
is directly related to this https://lore.kernel.org/all/17276996-dcca-4ab5-a64f-0e76514c5dc7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/)
and then returned on working on the code rewrite for upstream ( https://lore.kernel.org/all/8847423c-22ec-4775-9119-de3e0ddb5204@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/
is directly related to that), because I'm a developer not a lawyer.
I agree that it's unlucky that MODULE_LICENSE("GPL") doesn't apply for
GPLv3. Not sure if it's sensible to deprecate "GPL" and mandate "GPL v2"
though.
Then I get called a liar
I guess you mean me here saying "That statement isn't consistent with
you saying to pick GPLv3 as an explicitly incompatible license to
control the mainlining process. So you knew that it's legally at least
questionable to combine these licenses."? If so: I understand that this
is discomfortable suggestion. However with my current understanding it's
true. If this is a problem with my understanding, please point out where
I'm wrong.
It's about that second sentence "So you knew that it's legally [...]" which I
explicitly stated that I was not e.g.
https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers/-/issues/137#note_2066858305
from back in august.
and hit with the nuclear option not even full 3 days later,
For now we're in the discussion period for this "option". I would expect
that this patch doesn't go in before 6.12. So 6.13-rc1 should be the
earliest broken ("enforcing") kernel which probably starts to affect
your users starting with 6.13 final. The actual decision if and when to
apply this patch isn't mine though. But you should have at least a few
weeks to work on resolving the licensing.
Knowing the issue tracker too well, I know that day one of 6.13-rc1 release a
discussion will might break loose that binds resources not invested in other stuff.
Also can you guarantee that it's not landing in 6.12(.0)?
That's why I asked for a clear timeframe to work with but I don't know if I can
get one.
while I'm working on resolving the issue
This is good. You have my support to revert the patch under discussion
as soon as this is resolved.
and in parallel working on improving the code for it to be actually
accepted by upstream.
If you want prove of my blissful ignorance from just last week please take a
look at my comment here: https://gitlab.com/tuxedocomputers/development/packages/tuxedo-drivers/-/merge_requests/21#note_2201702758
I indeed wondered about your reaction.
Now trying to be constructive: Can you give me a timeframe to resolve the
license issue before this is merged?
I would wish that in people's mind open source licensing would be taken
as serious as for example fiscal laws. If my company was caught as tax
evader the officials would rather shut down the company's operation than
to allow another month with unclean bookkeeping.
So if you ask for my opinion, the right thing to do would be to stop
distributing tuxedo-drivers until this is resolved. Then I'd guess it's
your company's officials who would tell you about a time frame. But I'm
aware that I'm on the strong side of the spectrum of possibilities here.
This would break linux installations on many devices and not only fall back on
TUXEDO I honestly fear.
I was not around when the decision to license tuxedo-drivers (back then called
tuxedo-cc-wmi) under GPL v3 was made, but I trust the people here that is was
not done knowingly violating the GPL v2. And you did agree above that
MODULE_LICENSE("GPL") is somewhat unluckily named.
I guess what I try to convince you and others is that we _are_ taking Open
Source licenses seriously, but still there are mistakes to be made, especially
with complex projects like the Linux kernel, e.g. I'm not aware of any other
project that uses a similar construct to EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL()/MODULE_LICENSE().
Best regards,
Werner Sembach
Best regards
Uwe
