Hi,
On 2019-11-15 23:09, Doug Anderson wrote:
Hi,
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 3:13 AM Ram Prakash Gupta
<rampraka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Each time the triggering point for scaling up/down is hit, then a
series of commands needs to be sent to the card, including running the
tuning procedure. The point is, for sure, this doesn't come for free,
both from a latency point of view, but also from an energy cost point
of view. So, whether this really improves the behaviour, seems like
very use case sensitive, right!?
With clock scaling support device mode would be switched between low
speed
(hs50 or ddr52) and high speed mode(hs400 enhanced strobe).
I haven't read the patches, but just from this description it feels
like the wrong way to go. From my understanding if you're running at
HS400 then you can run the card at any speed between 0 and 200 MHz. I
see no reason why you'd want to switch modes. Just stay at HS400 and
slow down the clock, right? Then you can keep the "Enhanced Strobe"
which makes everything more reliable.
If you're running on a system that doesn't have enhanced strobe you
_should_ still be able to switch clock speeds without switching modes
since the spec has just a _maximum_ clock frequency for each mode, so
HS200, DDR50, etc should all be able to run at slower speeds without
an official mode switch. You also shouldn't have to re-tune. Tuning
is nothing magical, it's just trying to find the delay between sending
a pulse on the clock line and when you read the data sent by the other
side. Assuming your tuning delay is natively represented in "phase
offset", you can convert that back to an actual delay and then back to
"phase offset" for the new clock.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have seek input from hardware team on this.
I will get back on this.
To further argue against switching modes, I would also note that for
SD cards switching to a slower speed mode may result in an increase in
IO voltage, which seems like it could be bad for power consumption?
For SDCard clk scaling, driver is not switching any mode. So this should
not affect any use case.
And from energy point of view, this feature is only helping in saving
energy
and not adding any energy penalty. And we have observed a considerable
amount
of power saving(data shared in mid) when playing 1080p video playback
with
clock scaling feature support.
I am slightly baffled about why this would save energy unless it
allows you to lower the voltage to the controller. I know you _can_
sometimes lower the voltage to the controller on Qualcomm parts, but
you are arguing that it is useful even on systems that can't lower the
voltage. That feels slightly questionable. I would expect that
racing to idle (with the right tuning parameters) would be a better
way to go.
Sorry, if my explanation was misleading before. MMC driver is not
changing
card/controller voltage but by lowering clock frequency of card and
controller brings down _bus_ and _system_ voltage corners of device
which
helps in saving power consumption.
As a specific example, let's imagine we want to transfer 1000 MB of
data and we have 20 seconds with which to do it. We can achieve this
by transferring 50 MB/s for the whole 20 seconds. Alternatively, we
could transfer at 400 MB/s 2.5 seconds and then fully power gate the
eMMC for the next 17.5 seconds.
In that example, I'd wonder ask is more power efficient. Presumably
the 2nd. This is the whole "race to idle" concept as I understand it.
The "race to idle" is talked about a lot in the context of CPU
frequency decisions. Presumably you'll point out that "race to idle"
is NOT the right thing to do for choosing a CPU frequency. As I
understand it, this is primarily true because we need to raise the CPU
voltage to run at faster speeds. This would lead me to believe that
the only case you'd want to do frequency scaling like this is if it
allows you to lower the voltage provided to the eMMC controller. As
you said, for Qualcomm it _does_ allow you to do this, but most other
SoCs don't. ...so unless there's a flaw in my logic (always
possible!) this patch series should be amended to say it's only useful
if it allows you to down-volt the controller.
Just to think a little bit more about my logic: of course, you might
argue that we can't just do a 1000 MB data transfer. We can break
that down into two cases:
a) For writing, presumably the data is produced over time and you
don't want to buffer the whole 1000 MB and delay 17.5 seconds before
you start writing. ...but presumably you could do _some_ buffering
and then break things into chunks where you ungate the clock to the
card, write a chunk out, and then re-gate the clock. There will
obviously be some overhead with each clock gate/ungate, but
(hopefully) not too much. ...and there will be time when data is in
RAM and not on the disk so you'd worry about power failure, but if you
want to get data on the disk ASAP why are you scaling the clock (and
thus delaying the data from getting to the disk) at all? Maybe some
math? How long does it take to ungate/gate the clocks. 1 ms? It's
just flipping a bit, right? ...and does assuming we can allocate a 40
MB write buffer seem sane? So we eat 1 ms to ungate, 100 ms to
transfer 40 MB, 1 ms to gate. Compared to transferring at 50 MB/sec
(w/ no gating), we'd transfer the same 40 MB in 800 ms. So we either
keep the clock on at 50 MHz for 800 ms or we keep it on at 200 MHz for
102 ms and gate it for 698 ms.
"race to idle" helps but this feature was implemented with focus on
video
playback case, where data transfer request to mmc driver spans over
entire
playback time of video. In this case, running device in low speed mode
helps.
b) If you're reading data then hopefully the system has some sort of
readahead going on. In the "video playback" case the system should
have no problem predicting that if you've just read bytes
1,000,000,000 - 2,000,000,000 of a file over the last 10 seconds that
you're likely to keep reading the same file. Presumably it wouldn't
be totally insane to read 40 MB ahead of time and then we can do the
same math as a). If 40 MB is too much for readahead, then shrink it
and redo the math. Even with much smaller numbers the "race to idle"
wins because gating / ungating clocks is fast. ...or do you know some
reason why gating / ungating clocks needs to be slow? If so, how
slow?
I have performed one experiment by increasing read ahead size, but that
is
not helping. And I don't observe much difference in data request pattern
generated in video playback case.
Test case used are 1080p and 4k video playback use case. Please find
below
test case information and power impact data. In both the below video
playback
cases, a considerable amount of power savings can be observed with
clock scaling
feature.
Use cases Delta at battery (mA) Power impact %
30 fps at HD 1080p decode 20 Mbps 10 mA 11%
30 fps at UHD 8b H.264 42 Mbps 20.93 mA 19%
Numbers like this are exactly what is needed to justify your patch
series. ...but I'd be super curious to how it would compare to:
1) Tuning the runtime PM auto-suspend delay. If you have your
auto-suspend delay set wrong (like 500 ms) then all the math above is
totally wrong. We'll keep clocking at 400 MHz needlessly even though
there is no data to transfer. If autosuspend is just gating clocks
then it feels like you could set it to 1 ms, or 10 ms. NOTE: if
autosuspend for you is something more major (fully turning off power
rails to the eMMC) then maybe you need another level where you just
turn off the clocks. Seems like we could find some way to make that
work.
Gating / Ungating can be fine tuned to help bring down power consumption
too. I will share power numbers with tuned parameters in next
communication.
2) Tuning any readached mechanism in your system. If your system
somehow does zero readahead then obviously all my arguments don't work
for reads. ...but why would you not have readahead?
3) Tuning any write buffering in your system. Same argument as #2.
This feature is specific to video playback use case from storage device.
Not sure, which buffering can be tuned. Can you point out any buffering
used?
4) Making sure that when the MMC card clock is gated that you request
the lowest voltage level for the controller (and set the controller's
bus clock to the lowest level since it's not doing anything).
I would also be very interested to know how much of those savings are
achieved if you keep the voltage to the MMC controller the same. In
other words do something that arbitrarily keeps the MMC controller
requesting the same voltage level from the rest of the system and then
do your power measurements. How much do your savings change?
I will also note that aggressive clock gating is exactly what the
dw_mmc controller does automatically (except for SDIO, but that's a
different story). Seeing that the controller itself can stop the
clock in dw_mmc gives further credence that gating / ungating the
clock is a very lightweight operation and 1 ms is probably an
over-estimation of how long it takes.
I guess one very last note is that I spent most of the time above
arguing that the clock scaling concept is probably not useful for any
SoCs where you can't adjust the voltage provided to the MMC
controller. That doesn't necessarily mean that your patch series is
useful for SoCs where you can. Specifically you'd need to do math to
see how much more power the MMC controller takes at the higher
voltage. Then you can calculate a "perf per watt". If the watts to
transfer data at 400 MB/s aren't 8 times more than the watts to
transfer at 50 MB/s then that's a ding against your idea. You'd also
don't have a dedicated voltage rail, right? So you'd have to see what
percentage of the time the MMC controller was the only thing in the
system that was requesting the higher voltage. If it happened that
something else in the system was keeping the voltage higher anyway
then it would be better for you to run faster and race to idle.
Really I guess the case you're most worried about is if the MMC
controller is causing other components in the system to be at a higher
voltage point (and thus take up more power)...
Rail is not dedicated for eMMC device. So during video playback its mmc
votes only, which keeps device in higher voltage corners. So for a three
hours of a video playback, power consumption due to mmc vote would be
quite
considerable.
Hope that all makes sense. I can read the patches themselves if
needed--everything from above is just based on your cover letter and
discussion with Ulf. ;-)
-Doug
Thanks,
Ram
