Hi Mel, Rik, Hugh, Andrea -- (Andrew and others also invited to read/comment!) In the last couple of years, I've had conversations or email discussions with each of you which touched on a possibly important future memory management policy topic. After giving it some deep thought, I wonder if I might beg for a few moments of your time to think about it with me and provide some feedback? There are now three projects that use in-kernel compression to increase the amount of data that can be stored in RAM (zram, zcache, and now zswap). Each uses pages of data "hooked" from the MM subsystem, compresses the pages of data (into "zpages"), allocates pageframes from the MM subsystem, and uses those allocated pageframes to store the zpages. Other hooks decompress the data on demand back into pageframes. Any pageframes containing zpages are managed by the compression project code and, to the MM subsystem, the RAM is just gone, the same as if the pageframes were absorbed by a RAM-voracious device driver. Storing more data in RAM is generally a "good thing". What may be a "bad thing", however, is that the MM subsystem is losing control of a large fraction of the RAM that it would otherwise be managing. Since it is MM's job to "load balance" different memory demands on the kernel, compression may be positively improving the efficiency of one class of memory while impairing overall RAM "harmony" across the set of all classes. (This is a question that, in some form, all of you have asked me.) In short, the issue becomes: Is it possible to get the "good thing" without the "bad thing"? In other words, is there a way to more closely integrate the management of zpages along with the rest of RAM, and ensure that MM is responsible for both? And is it possible to do this without a radical rewrite of MM, which would never get merged? And, if so... a question at the top of my mind right now... how should this future integration impact the design/redesign/merging of zram/zcache/zswap? So here's what I'm thinking... First, it's important to note that currently the only two classes of memory that are "hooked" are clean pagecache pages (by zcache only) and anonymous pages (by all three). There is potential that other classes (dcache?) may be candidates for compression in the future but let's ignore them for now. Both "file" pages and "anon" pages are currently subdivided into "inactive" and "active" subclasses and kswapd currently "load balances" the four subclasses: file_active, file_inactive, anon_active, and anon_inactive. What I'm thinking is that compressed pages are really just a third type of subclass, i.e. active, inactive, and compressed ("very inactive"). However, since the size of a zpage varies dramatically and unpredictably -- and thus so does the storage density -- the MM subsystem should care NOT about the number of zpages, but the number of pageframes currently being used to store zpages! So we want the MM subsystem to track and manage: 1a) quantity of pageframes containing file_active pages 1b) quantity of pageframes containing file_inactive pages 1c) quantity of pageframes containing file_zpages 2a) quantity of pageframes containing anon_active pages 2b) quantity of pageframes containing anon_inactive pages 2c) quantity of pageframes containing anon_zpages For (1a/2a) and (1b/2b), of course, quantity of pageframes is exactly the same as the number of pages, and the kernel already tracks and manages these. For (1c/2c) however, MM only need care about the number of pageframes, not the number of zpages. It is the MM-compression sub-subsystem's responsibility to take direction from the MM subsystem as to the total number of pageframes it uses... how (and how efficiently) it stores zpages in that number of pageframes is its own business. If MM tells MM-compression to reduce "quantity of pageframes containing anon_zpages" it must be able to do that. OK, does that make sense? If so, I have thoughts on a more detailed implementation, but will hold that until after some discussion/feedback. Thanks in advance for any time you can spare! Dan -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@xxxxxxxxx. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href