On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 5:06 PM Juan Yescas <jyescas@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 6:24 PM Zi Yan <ziy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue Jan 21, 2025 at 9:08 PM EST, Juan Yescas wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:59 AM David Hildenbrand <david@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 20.01.25 16:29, Zi Yan wrote:
> > > > > On Mon Jan 20, 2025 at 3:14 AM EST, David Hildenbrand wrote:
> > > > >> On 20.01.25 01:39, Zi Yan wrote:
> > > > >>> On Sun Jan 19, 2025 at 6:55 PM EST, Barry Song wrote:
> > > > >>> <snip>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> However, with this workaround, we can't use transparent huge pages.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> Is the CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_BYTES requirement alignment only to support huge pages?
> > > > >>>>> No. CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_BYTES is limited by CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_PAGES, which
> > > > >>>>> is equal to pageblock size. Enabling THP just bumps the pageblock size.
> > > > >>>>
> > >
> > > Thanks, I can see the initialization in include/linux/pageblock-flags.h
> > >
> > > #define pageblock_order MIN_T(unsigned int, HUGETLB_PAGE_ORDER, MAX_PAGE_ORDER)
> > >
> > > > >>>> Currently, THP might be mTHP, which can have a significantly smaller
> > > > >>>> size than 32MB. For
> > > > >>>> example, on arm64 systems with a 16KiB page size, a 2MB CONT-PTE mTHP
> > > > >>>> is possible.
> > > > >>>> Additionally, mTHP relies on the CONFIG_TRANSPARENT_HUGEPAGE configuration.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> I wonder if it's possible to enable CONFIG_TRANSPARENT_HUGEPAGE
> > > > >>>> without necessarily
> > > > >>>> using 32MiB THP. If we use other sizes, such as 64KiB, perhaps a large
> > > > >>>> pageblock size wouldn't
> > > > >>>> be necessary?
> > >
> > > Do you mean with mTHP? We haven't explored that option.
> >
> > Yes. Unless your applications have special demands for PMD THPs. 2MB
> > mTHP should work.
> >
> > >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I think this should work by reducing MAX_PAGE_ORDER like Juan did for
> > > > >>> the experiment. But MAX_PAGE_ORDER is a macro right now, Kconfig needs
> > > > >>> to be changed and kernel needs to be recompiled. Not sure if it is OK
> > > > >>> for Juan's use case.
> > > > >>
> > >
> > > The main goal is to reserve only the necessary CMA memory for the
> > > drivers, which is
> > > usually the same for 4kb and 16kb page size kernels.
> >
> > Got it. Based on your experiment, you changed MAX_PAGE_ORDER to get the
> > minimal CMA alignment size. Can you deploy that kernel to production?
>
> We can't deploy that because many Android partners are using PMD THP instead
> of mTHP.
>
> > If yes, you can use mTHP instead of PMD THP and still get the CMA
> > alignemnt you want.
> >
> > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> IIRC, we set pageblock size == THP size because this is the granularity
> > > > >> we want to optimize defragmentation for. ("try keep pageblock
> > > > >> granularity of the same memory type: movable vs. unmovable")
> > > > >
> > > > > Right. In past, it is optimized for PMD THP. Now we have mTHP. If user
> > > > > does not care about PMD THP (32MB in ARM64 16KB base page case) and mTHP
> > > > > (2MB mTHP here) is good enough, reducing pageblock size works.
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> However, the buddy already supports having different pagetypes for large
> > > > >> allocations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Right. To be clear, only MIGRATE_UNMOVABLE, MIGRATE_RECLAIMABLE, and
> > > > > MIGRATE_MOVABLE can be merged.
> > > >
> > > > Yes! An a THP cannot span partial MIGRATE_CMA, which would be fine.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> So we could leave MAX_ORDER alone and try adjusting the pageblock size
> > > > >> in these setups. pageblock size is already variable on some
> > > > >> architectures IIRC.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Which values would work for the CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_BYTES macro? In the
> > > 16KiB page size kernel,
> > > I tried these 2 configurations:
> > >
> > > #define CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_BYTES (2048 * CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_PAGES)
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > #define CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_BYTES (4096 * CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_PAGES)
> > >
> > > with both of them, the kernel failed to boot.
> >
> > CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_BYTES needs to be PAGE_SIZE * CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_PAGES.
> > So you need to adjust CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_PAGES, which is set by pageblock
> > size. pageblock size is determined by pageblock order, which is
> > affected by MAX_PAGE_ORDER.
> >
> > >
> > > > > Making pageblock size a boot time variable? We might want to warn
> > > > > sysadmin/user that >pageblock_order THP/mTHP creation will suffer.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, some way to configure it.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> We'd only have to check if all of the THP logic can deal with pageblock
> > > > >> size < THP size.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > The reason that THP was disabled in my experiment is because this
> > > assertion failed
> > >
> > > mm/huge_memory.c
> > > /*
> > > * hugepages can't be allocated by the buddy allocator
> > > */
> > > MAYBE_BUILD_BUG_ON(HPAGE_PMD_ORDER > MAX_PAGE_ORDER);
> > >
> > > when
> > >
> > > config ARCH_FORCE_MAX_ORDER
> > > int
> > > .....
> > > default "8" if ARM64_16K_PAGES
> > >
> >
> > You can remove that BUILD_BUG_ON and turn on mTHP and see if mTHP works.
> >
>
> We'll do that and post the results.
>
> > >
> > > > > Probably yes, pageblock should be independent of THP logic, although
> > > > > compaction (used to create THPs) logic is based on pageblock.
> > > >
> > > > Right. As raised in the past, we need a higher level mechanism that
> > > > tries to group pageblocks together during comapction/conversion to limit
> > > > fragmentation on a higher level.
> > > >
> > > > I assume that many use cases would be fine with not using 32MB/512MB
> > > > THPs at all for now -- and instead using 2 MB ones. Of course, for very
> > > > large installations it might be different.
> > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This issue is even more severe on arm64 with 64k (pageblock = 512MiB).
> > > > >
> > >
> > > I agree, and if ARCH_FORCE_MAX_ORDER is configured to the max value we get:
> > >
> > > PAGE_SIZE | max MAX_PAGE_ORDER | CMA_MIN_ALIGNMENT_BYTES
> > > 4KiB | 15 | 4KiB
> > > * 32KiB = 128MiB
> > > 16KiB | 13 | 16KiB
> > > * 8KiB = 128MiB
> > > 64KiB | 13 | 64KiB
> > > * 8KiB = 512MiB
> > >
> > > > > This is also good for virtio-mem, since the offline memory block size
> > > > > can also be reduced. I remember you complained about it before.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, yes, yes! :)
> > > >
> >
> > David's proposal should work in general, but will might take non-trivial
> > amount of work:
> >
> > 1. keep pageblock size always at 4MB for all arch.
> > 2. adjust existing pageblock users, like compaction, to work on a
> > different range, independent of pageblock.
> > a. for anti-fragmentation mechanism, multiple pageblocks might have
> > different migratetypes but would be compacted to generate huge
> > pages, but how to align their migratetypes is TBD.
> > 3. other corner case handlings.
> >
> >
> > The final question is that Barry mentioned that over-reserved CMA areas
> > can be used for movable page allocations. Why does it not work for you?
>
> I need to run more experiments to see what type of page allocations in
> the system is the dominant one (unmovable or movable). If it is movable,
> over-reserved CMA areas should be fine.
My understanding is that over-reserving 28MiB is unlikely to cause
noticeable regression, given that we frequently handle allocations like
GFP_HIGHUSER_MOVABLE or similar, which are significantly larger
than 28MiB. However, David also mentioned a reservation of 512MiB
for a 64KiB page size. In that case, 512MiB might be large enough to
potentially impact the balance between movable and unmovable
allocations. For instance, if we still have 512MiB reserved in CMA
but are allocating unmovable folios(for example dma-buf), we could
fail an allocation even when there’s actually capacity. So, in any case,
there is still work to be done here.
By the way, is 512MiB truly a reasonable size for THP? it seems
that 2MiB is a more suitable default size for THP. Both 4KiB, 16KiB,
64KiB support 2MB large folios. For 4KiB, it is PMD-mmaped, for
16KiB and 64KiB, it is cont-pte.
>
> >
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> > Yan, Zi
> >
Thanks
Barry
