On 08/16/2012 07:37 AM, Greg Thelen wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15 2012, Glauber Costa wrote:
>
>> On 08/15/2012 09:12 PM, Greg Thelen wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 15 2012, Glauber Costa wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 08/15/2012 08:38 PM, Greg Thelen wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 15 2012, Glauber Costa wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/14/2012 10:58 PM, Greg Thelen wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 13 2012, Glauber Costa wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> + WARN_ON(mem_cgroup_is_root(memcg));
>>>>>>>>>>> + size = (1 << order) << PAGE_SHIFT;
>>>>>>>>>>> + memcg_uncharge_kmem(memcg, size);
>>>>>>>>>>> + mem_cgroup_put(memcg);
>>>>>>>>> Why do we need ref-counting here ? kmem res_counter cannot work as
>>>>>>>>> reference ?
>>>>>>>> This is of course the pair of the mem_cgroup_get() you commented on
>>>>>>>> earlier. If we need one, we need the other. If we don't need one, we
>>>>>>>> don't need the other =)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The guarantee we're trying to give here is that the memcg structure will
>>>>>>>> stay around while there are dangling charges to kmem, that we decided
>>>>>>>> not to move (remember: moving it for the stack is simple, for the slab
>>>>>>>> is very complicated and ill-defined, and I believe it is better to treat
>>>>>>>> all kmem equally here)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By keeping memcg structures hanging around until the last referring kmem
>>>>>>> page is uncharged do such zombie memcg each consume a css_id and thus
>>>>>>> put pressure on the 64k css_id space? I imagine in pathological cases
>>>>>>> this would prevent creation of new cgroups until these zombies are
>>>>>>> dereferenced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but although this patch makes it more likely, it doesn't introduce
>>>>>> that. If the tasks, for instance, grab a reference to the cgroup dentry
>>>>>> in the filesystem (like their CWD, etc), they will also keep the cgroup
>>>>>> around.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fair point. But this doesn't seems like a feature. It's probably not
>>>>> needed initially, but what do you think about creating a
>>>>> memcg_kernel_context structure which is allocated when memcg is
>>>>> allocated? Kernel pages charged to a memcg would have
>>>>> page_cgroup->mem_cgroup=memcg_kernel_context rather than memcg. This
>>>>> would allow the mem_cgroup and its css_id to be deleted when the cgroup
>>>>> is unlinked from cgroupfs while allowing for the active kernel pages to
>>>>> continue pointing to a valid memcg_kernel_context. This would be a
>>>>> reference counted structure much like you are doing with memcg. When a
>>>>> memcg is deleted the memcg_kernel_context would be linked into its
>>>>> surviving parent memcg. This would avoid needing to visit each kernel
>>>>> page.
>>>>
>>>> You need more, you need at the res_counters to stay around as well. And
>>>> probably other fields.
>>>
>>> I am not sure the res_counters would need to stay around. Once a
>>> memcg_kernel_context has been reparented, then any future kernel page
>>> uncharge calls will uncharge the parent res_counter.
>>
>> Well, if you hold the memcg due to a reference, like in the dentry case,
>> then fine. But if this is a dangling charge, as will be the case with
>> the slab, then you have to uncharge it.
>>
>> An arbitrary number of parents might have been deleted as well, so you
>> need to transverse them all until you reach a live parent to uncharge from.
>
> I was thinking that each time a memcg is deleted move the
> memcg_kernel_context from the victim memcg to its parent. When moving,
> also update the context to refer to the parent and link context to
> parent:
> for_each_kernel_context(kernel_context, memcg) {
> kernel_context->memcg = memcg->parent;
> list_add(&kernel_context->list, &memcg->parent->kernel_contexts);
> }
>
> Whenever pages referring to a memcg_kernel_context are uncharged they
> will uncharge the nearest surviving parent memcg.
>
>> To do that, your counters have to be still alive.
>
> The counters of nearest surviving parent will be alive and pointed to by
> memcg_kernel_context->memcg.
>
>>>> So my fear here is that as you add fields to that structure, you can
>>>> defeat a bit the goal of reducing memory consumption. Still leaves the
>>>> css space, yes. But by doing this we can introduce some subtle bugs by
>>>> having a field in the wrong structure.
>>>>
>>>> Did you observe that to be a big problem in your systems?
>>>
>>> No I have not seen this yet. But our past solutions have reparented
>>> kmem_cache's to root memcg so we have been avoiding zombie memcg. My
>>> concerns with your approach are just a suspicion because we have been
>>> experimenting with accounting of even more kernel memory (e.g. vmalloc,
>>> kernel stacks, page tables). As the scope of such accounting grows the
>>> chance of long lived charged pages grows and thus the chance of zombies
>>> which exhaust the css_id space grows.
>>
Can't we just free the css_id, and convention that it should not be used
after mem_cgroup_destroy()? The memory will still stay around,
sure, but at least the pressure on the css_id space goes away.
I am testing a patch that does precisely that here, and will let you
know of the results. But if you were willing to have a smaller structure
just to serve as a zombie, any approach that works for it would have to
assume the css_id was already freed, so I don't anticipate huge problems.
>> Well, since we agree this can all be done under the hood, I'd say let's
>> wait until a problem actually exists, since the solution is likely to be
>> a bit convoluted...
>>
>> I personally believe that if won't have a lot of task movement, most of
>> the data will go away as the cgroup dies. The remainder shouldn't be too
>> much to hold it in memory for a lot of time. This is of course assuming
>> a real use case, not an adversarial scenario, which is quite easy to
>> come up with: just create a task, hold a bunch of kmem, move the task
>> away, delete the cgroup, etc.
>>
>> That said, nothing stops us to actively try to create a scenario that
>> would demonstrate such a problem.
>
> With our in-house per-memcg slab accounting (similar to what's discussed
> here), we're seeing a few slab allocations (mostly radix_tree_node) that
> survive a long time after memcg deletion. This isn't meant as criticism
> of this patch series, just an fyi that I expect there will be scenarios
> where some dead kmem caches will live for a long time. Though I think
> that in your patches a dead kmem cache does not hold reference to the
> memcg.
>
Does shrinking help?
One of the things I was thinking about doing when we have proper
per-memcg shrinking, is to shrink all caches when destroying the memcg.
Because the memcg is dead, we'll have no more memcg pressure, and those
will go away only when global pressure comes to play. Which means that
the references will then be around for a very long time. What is the
best behavior is debatable, but at least at first, I'd stand by the side
of getting rid of everything the memcg created as much as possible.
Also, if you are concerned with memory usage due to the memcg structure,
bear in mind that the caches metadata may be considerably more...
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