> -----Original Message----- > From: Jerome Glisse [mailto:j.glisse@xxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 12:53 AM > To: Jerome Glisse; Inki Dae; linux-mm@xxxxxxxxx; kyungmin.park@xxxxxxxxxxx; > sw0312.kim@xxxxxxxxxxx; dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2 v3] drm/exynos: added userptr feature. > > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Daniel Vetter <daniel@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:05:07AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote: > >> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:44 PM, Inki Dae <inki.dae@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> > Hi Jerome, > >> > > >> > Thank you again. > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Jerome Glisse [mailto:j.glisse@xxxxxxxxx] > >> >> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:33 AM > >> >> To: Inki Dae > >> >> Cc: airlied@xxxxxxxx; dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; > >> >> kyungmin.park@xxxxxxxxxxx; sw0312.kim@xxxxxxxxxxx; linux- > mm@xxxxxxxxx > >> >> Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2 v3] drm/exynos: added userptr feature. > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Jerome Glisse <j.glisse@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> >> > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Inki Dae <inki.dae@xxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> >> >> this feature is used to import user space region allocated by > malloc() > >> >> or > >> >> >> mmaped into a gem. and to guarantee the pages to user space not > to be > >> >> >> swapped out, the VMAs within the user space would be locked and > then > >> >> unlocked > >> >> >> when the pages are released. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> but this lock might result in significant degradation of system > >> >> performance > >> >> >> because the pages couldn't be swapped out so we limit user- > desired > >> >> userptr > >> >> >> size to pre-defined. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Signed-off-by: Inki Dae <inki.dae@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >> >> Signed-off-by: Kyungmin Park <kyungmin.park@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Again i would like feedback from mm people (adding cc). I am not > sure > >> >> > locking the vma is the right anwser as i said in my previous mail, > >> >> > userspace can munlock it in your back, maybe VM_RESERVED is better. > >> >> > Anyway even not considering that you don't check at all that > process > >> >> > don't go over the limit of locked page see mm/mlock.c > RLIMIT_MEMLOCK > >> >> > for how it's done. Also you mlock complete vma but the userptr you > get > >> >> > might be inside say 16M vma and you only care about 1M of userptr, > if > >> >> > you mark the whole vma as locked than anytime a new page is fault > in > >> >> > the vma else where than in the buffer you are interested then it > got > >> >> > allocated for ever until the gem buffer is destroy, i am not sure > of > >> >> > what happen to the vma on next malloc if it grows or not (i would > >> >> > think it won't grow at it would have different flags than new > >> >> > anonymous memory). > >> >> > > >> >> > The whole business of directly using malloced memory for gpu is > fishy > >> >> > and i would really like to get it right rather than relying on > never > >> >> > hitting strange things like page migration, vma merging, or worse > >> >> > things like over locking pages and stealing memory. > >> >> > > >> >> > Cheers, > >> >> > Jerome > >> >> > >> >> I had a lengthy discussion with mm people (thx a lot for that). I > >> >> think we should split 2 different use case. The zero-copy upload > case > >> >> ie : > >> >> app: > >> >> ptr = malloc() > >> >> ... > >> >> glTex/VBO/UBO/...(ptr) > >> >> free(ptr) or reuse it for other things > >> >> For which i guess you want to avoid having to do a memcpy inside the > >> >> gl library (could be anything else than gl that have same useage > >> >> pattern). > >> >> > >> > > >> > Right, in this case, we are using the userptr feature as pixman and > evas > >> > backend to use 2d accelerator. > >> > > >> >> ie after the upload happen you don't care about those page they can > >> >> removed from the vma or marked as cow so that anything messing with > >> >> those page after the upload won't change what you uploaded. Of > course > >> > > >> > I'm not sure that I understood your mentions but could the pages be > removed > >> > from vma with VM_LOCKED or VM_RESERVED? once glTex/VBO/UBO/..., the > VMAs to > >> > user space would be locked. if cpu accessed significant part of all > the > >> > pages in user mode then pages to the part would be allocated by page > fault > >> > handler, after that, through userptr, the VMAs to user address space > would > >> > be locked(at this time, the remaining pages would be allocated also > by > >> > get_user_pages by calling page fault handler) I'd be glad to give me > any > >> > comments and advices if there is my missing point. > >> > > >> >> this is assuming that the tlb cost of doing such thing is smaller > than > >> >> the cost of memcpy the data. > >> >> > >> > > >> > yes, in our test case, the tlb cost(incurred by tlb miss) was smaller > than > >> > the cost of memcpy also cpu usage. of course, this would be depended > on gpu > >> > performance. > >> > > >> >> Two way to do that, either you assume app can't not read back data > >> >> after gl can and you do an unmap_mapping_range (make sure you only > >> >> unmap fully covered page and that you copy non fully covered page) > or > >> >> you want to allow userspace to still read data or possibly overwrite > >> >> them > >> >> > >> >> Second use case is something more like for the opencl case of > >> >> CL_MEM_USE_HOST_PTR, in which you want to use the same page in the > gpu > >> >> and keep the userspace vma pointing to those page. I think the > >> >> agreement on this case is that there is no way right now to do it > >> >> sanely inside linux kernel. mlocking will need proper accounting > >> >> against rtlimit but this limit might be low. Also the fork case > might > >> >> be problematic. > >> >> > >> >> For the fork case the memory is anonymous so it should be COWed in > the > >> >> fork child but relative to cl context that means the child could not > >> >> use the cl context with that memory or at least if the child write > to > >> >> this memory the cl will not see those change. I guess the answer to > >> >> that one is that you really need to use the cl api to read the > object > >> >> or get proper ptr to read it. > >> >> > >> >> Anyway in all case, implementing this userptr thing need a lot more > >> >> code. You have to check to that the vma you are trying to use is > >> >> anonymous and only handle this case and fallback to alloc new page > and > >> >> copy otherwise.. > >> >> > >> > > >> > I'd like to say thank you again you gave me comments and advices in > detail. > >> > there may be my missing points but I will check it again. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > Inki Dae > >> > > >> >> Cheers, > >> >> Jerome > >> > > >> > >> I think to sumup things there is 2 use case: > >> 1: we want to steal anonymous page and move them to a gem/gpu object. > >> So call get_user_pages on the rand and then unmap_mapping_range on the > >> range we want to still page are the function you would want. That > >> assume of course that the api case your are trying to accelerate is ok > >> with having the user process loosing the content of this buffer. If > >> it's not the other solution is to mark the range as COW and steal the > >> page, if userspace try to write something new to the range it will get > >> new page (from copy of old one). > >> > >> Let call it drm_gem_from_userptr > >> > >> 2: you want to be able to use malloced area over long period of time > >> (several minute) with the gpu and you want that userspace vma still > >> point to those page. It the most problematic case, as i said just > >> mlocking the vma is troublesome as malicious userspace can munlock it > >> or try to abuse you to mlock too much. I believe right now there is no > >> good way to handle this case. That means that page can't be swaped out > >> or moved as regular anonymous page but on fork or exec this area still > >> need to behave like an anonymous vma. > >> > >> Let call drm_gem_backed_by_userptr > >> > >> Inki i really think you should split this 2 usecase, and do only the > >> drm_gem_from_userptr if it's enough for what you are trying to do. As > >> the second case look that too many things can go wrong. > > > > Jumping into the discussion late: Chris Wilson stitched together a > userptr > > feature for i915. Iirc he started with your 1st usecase but quickly > > noticed that doing all this setup stuff (get_user_pages alone, he didn't > > include your proposed cow trick) is too expensive and it's cheaper to > just > > upload things with the cpu. > > I think use case 1 can still be usefull on desktop x86 but the object > need to be big something like bigger 16M or probably even bigger, so > that the cost of memcpy is bigger than the cost of tlb trashing. I am > sure than once we are seeing 1G dataset of opencl we will want to use > the stealing code path rather than memcpy things. Sadly API like CL > and GL don't make provision saying that the data ptr user supplied > might not have the content anymore so it makes the cow trick kind of > needed but it kills usecase such as : > scratch = malloc() > for (i =0; i<numtex; i++){ > readtexture(scratch, texfilename[i]) > glteximage(scratch) > } > free(scratch) > > Or anything with similar access, here obviously the page backing the > scratch area can be stole at each glteximage call. > > Anyway if you can define your api and provision that after call the > data you provided is no longer available then use case 1 sounds doable > and worth it to me. > How about forcing VM_DONTCOPY not to copy the vma on fork? this flag may prevent doing COW. and I was talked that get_user_pages call avoid the pages from being swapped out, not using mlock. if all the pages from get_user_pages are MOVABLE then CMA would try to migrate movable pages into reserved space for DMA once device driver tries allocation through dma api so if we could prevent the pages from being moved by CMA and we limit maximum size for userptr(accessed by only root user) then I guess that we could avoid these issues. there may be many things I don't care so please give me any comments and advices. Thanks, Inki Dae > > So he needs to keep around these mappings for essentially forever to > > amortize the setup cost, which boils down to your 2nd use-case. I've > > refused to merge that code since, like you point out, too much stuff can > > go wrong when we pin arbitrary ranges of userspace. > > > > One example which would only affect ARM platforms is that this would > > horribly break CMA: Userspace malloc is allocated as GFP_MOVEABLE, and > CMA > > relies on migrating moveable pages out of the CMA region to handle large > > contigious allocations. Currently the page migrate code simply backs > down > > and waits a bit if it encounters a page locked by get_user_pages, > assuming > > that this is due to io and will complete shortly. If you hold onto such > > pages for a long time, that retry will eventually fail and break CMA. > > > > There are other problems affecting also desktop machines, but I've > figured > > I'll pick something that really hurts on arm ;-) > > > > Yours, Daniel > > -- > > Daniel Vetter > > Mail: daniel@xxxxxxxx > > Mobile: +41 (0)79 365 57 48 > > Yes, what i also wanted to stress is that get_user_pages is not > enough, we are not doing something over the period of an ioctl in > which case everything is fine and doable, but are stealing page and > expect to use them at random point in the future with no kind of > synchronization with userspace. Anyway i think we agree that this > second use case is way complex and many things can go wrong, i still > think that for opencl we might want to able to do it but by them i am > expecting we will take advantage of iommu being able to pagefault from > process pagetable like the next AMD iommu can. > > Cheers, > Jerome -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@xxxxxxxxx. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Fight unfair telecom internet charges in Canada: sign http://stopthemeter.ca/ Don't email: <a href