On 2/10/2023 5:09 PM, Suren Baghdasaryan wrote:
On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 4:45 PM Sudarshan Rajagopalan
<quic_sudaraja@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2/10/2023 3:03 PM, Suren Baghdasaryan wrote:
On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 2:31 PM Sudarshan Rajagopalan
<quic_sudaraja@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The PSI mechanism is useful tool to monitor pressure stall
information in the system. Currently, the minimum window size
is set to 500ms. May we know what is the rationale for this?
The limit was set to avoid regressions in performance and power
consumption if the window is set too small and the system ends up
polling too frequently. That said, the limit was chosen based on
results of specific experiments which might not represent all
Rightly as you said, the effect on power and performance depends on type
of the system - embedded systems, or Android mobile, or commercial VMs
or servers. With higher PSI sampling, it may not be much of power impact
to embedded systems with low-tier chipsets or performance impact to
powerful servers.
usecases. If you want to change this limit, you would need to describe
why the new limit is inherently better than the current one (why not
higher, why not lower).
This is in regards to the userspace daemon [1] that we are working on,
that dynamically resizes the VM memory based on PSI memory pressure
events. With current min window size of 500ms, the PSI monitor sampling
period would be 50ms. So to detect increase in memory demand in system
and plug-in memory into VM when pressure goes up, the minimum time the
process needs to stall for is 50ms before a event can be generated and
sent out to userspace and the daemon can do actions.
This again I'm talking w.r.t. lightweight embedded systems, where even
background kswapd/kcompd (which I'm calling it as natural memory
pressure) in the system would be less than 5-10ms stall. So any stall
more than 5-10ms would "hint" us that a memory consuming usecase has
ranB and memory may need to be plugged in.
So in these cases, having as low as 5ms psimon sampling time would give
us faster reaction time and daemon can be responsive more quickly. In
general, this will reduce the malloc latencies significantly.
Pasting here the same excerpt I mentioned in [1].
My question is: why do you think 5ms is the optimal limit here? I want
to avoid a race to the bottom where next time someone can argue that
they would like to detect a stall within a lower period than 5ms.
Technically the limit can be as small as one wants but at some point I
think we should consider the possibility of this being used for a DoS
attack.
Well the optimal limit should be something which is least destructive? I
do understand about possibility of DoS attacks, but wouldn't that still
be possible with 500ms window today? Which will atleast be 1/10th less
severe compared to 50ms window. The way I see it is - min pressure
sampling should be such that even the least pressure stall which we
think is significant should be captured (this could be 5ms or 50ms at
present) while balancing the power and performance impact across all
usecases.
At present, Android's LMKD sets 1000ms as window for which it considers
100ms sampling to be significant. And here, with psi_daemon usecase we
are saying 5ms sampling would be significant. So there's no actual
optimal limit, but we must limit as much possible without effecting
power or performance as a whole. Also, this is just the "minimum
allowable" window, and system admins can configure it as per the system
type/requirement.
Also, about possible DoS attacks - file permissions for
/proc/pressure/... can be set such that not any random user can register
to psi events right?
"
4. Detecting increase in memory demand b when a certain usecase starts
in VM that does memory allocations, it will stall causing PSI mechanism
to generate a memory pressure event to userspace. To simply put, when
pressure increases certain set threshold, it can make educated guess
that a memory requiring usecase has ran and VM system needs memory to be
added.
"
[1]
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/1bf30145-22a5-cc46-e583-25053460b105@xxxxxxxxxx/T/#m95ccf038c568271e759a277a08b8e44e51e8f90b
Thanks,
Suren.
For lightweight systems such as Linux Embedded Systems, PSI
can be used to monitor and track memory pressure building up
in the system and respond quickly to such memory demands.
Example, the Linux Embedded Systems could be a secondary VM
system which requests for memory from Primary host. With 500ms
window size, the sampling period is 50ms (one-tenth of windwo
size). So the minimum amount of time the process needs to stall,
so that a PSI event can be generated and actions can be done
is 50ms. This reaction time can be much reduced by reducing the
sampling time (by reducing window size), so that responses to
such memory pressures in system can be serviced much quicker.
Please let us know your thoughts on reducing window size to 50ms.
Sudarshan Rajagopalan (1):
psi: reduce min window size to 50ms
kernel/sched/psi.c | 2 +-
1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
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2.7.4
