On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 04:17:35PM -0800, Doug Berger wrote:
> On 11/18/2022 9:05 AM, Mel Gorman wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 02, 2022 at 03:33:53PM -0700, Doug Berger wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hotplugs requirements are somewhat different, the primary motivation that
> > > > I'm aware of is being able to guarantee they can be offlined, particularly
> > > > nodes, which can be done in some circumstances. Generally hotplug does
> > > > not care what uses the memory as long as it can be removed later. The
> > > > requirements for restricted access to high speed memory is different.
> > >
> > > This is effectively the same requirement that an implementation of
> > > 'reusable' reserved memory has. A driver that owns reserved memory may not
> > > care what uses the memory as long as the memory can be reclaimed when the
> > > driver needs it. This is functionally analogous to memory hotplug. Reserved
> > > memory that is 'reusable' and compatible with 'shared-dma-pool' uses the CMA
> > > implementation, but there is room for an alternative implementation that
> > > shares the memory more aggressively. This is a separate motivator for
> > > Designated Movable Block support, but I am deferring that discussion since
> > > it is desirable to have a more extended debate over APIs and such.
> > >
> >
> > There needs to be a better explanation as to why CMA cannot be used or more
> > importantly why page_alloc.shuffle= should not be used (more on that later.
> > It's not clear how a movable zone shares memory more aggressively than CMA
> > would. Both have the problem that the if protected range is too large that
> > premature memory exhaustion can occur for kernel allocations.
>
> The pages within a CMA pool can be allocated by either the CMA allocator
> (i.e. alloc_contig_range()) for use by the kernel (i.e. drivers) or by the
> page allocator to satisfy movable requests (i.e. predominantly user space).
> However, the page allocator is constrained by rules that make allocations
> from MIGRATE_CMA free lists a secondary consideration when the memory is
> available elsewhere. This tends toward keeping pages in a CMA pool free
> while user processes consume more memory outside of the CMA pool that could
> have been used more generally by the kernel.
> Pages on the MIGRATE_MOVABLE free list in ZONE_MOVABLE (i.e. all of the
> pages in the movable zone) are the first choice for satisfying movable
> requests. This allows user space to make full use of a 'reusable' reserved
> memory range that isn't actively used by a driver, which is what I mean by
> "more aggressive". When the driver wants to reclaim its 'reusable' reserved
> memory range it can use alloc_contig_range() to force any movable
> allocations out of the range perhaps into memory that could have been used
> more generally by the kernel. Such a reclamation may be more time consuming
> to complete since the pages are more likely to be in use than if they were
> on the MIGRATE_CMA free list, but no pages go unused by either the driver or
> user space.
>
Ok, so CMA is a bad fit. It's off the table.
> I was not familiar with page_alloc.shuffle, but it may very well have a role
> to play here.
>
It almost certainly does because unlike zones or CMA, it affects how
free lists are arranged. IIRC, the original purpose was about improving
performance of high-speed direct-mapped cache but it also serves a
purpose in this case -- randomising allocations between two channels.
It's still not perfect interleaving but better than none.
> > > > A
> > > > major limitation of ZONE_MOVABLE is that there is no way of controlling
> > > > access from userspace to restrict the high-speed memory to a designated
> > > > application, only to all applications in general. The primary interface
> > > > to control access to memory with different characteristics is mempolicies
> > > > which is NUMA orientated, not zone orientated. So, if there is a special
> > > > application that requires exclusive access, it's very difficult to configure
> > > > based on zones. Furthermore, page table pages mapping data located in the
> > > > high-speed region are stored in the slower memory which potentially impacts
> > > > the performance if the working set of the application exceeds TLB reach.
> > > > Finally, while there is mention that Broadcom may have some special
> > > > interface to determine what applications can use the high-speed region,
> > > > it's hardware-specific as opposed to something that belongs in the core mm.
> > > >
> > > > I agree that keeping the high-speed memory in a local node and using "sticky"
> > > > pageblocks or CMA has limitations of its own but in itself, that does not
> > > > justify using ZONE_MOVABLE in my opinion. The statement that ARM can have
> > > > multiple controllers with equal distance and bandwidth (if I'm reading it
> > > > correctly) but places them in different zones.... that's just a bit weird if
> > > > there are no other addressing limitations. It's not obvious why ARM would do
> > > > that, but it also does not matter because it shouldn't be a core mm concern.
> > >
> > > There appears to be some confusion regarding my explanation of multiple
> > > memory controllers on a device like the BCM7278. There is no inherent
> > > performance difference between the two memory controllers and their attached
> > > DRAM. They merely provide the opportunity to perform memory accesses in
> > > parallel for different physical address ranges. The physical address ranges
> > > were selected by the SoC designers for reasons only known to them, but I'm
> > > sure they had no consideration of zones in their decision making. The
> > > selection of zones remains an artifact of the design of Linux.
> > >
> >
> > Ok, so the channels are equal but the channels are not interleaved in
> > hardware so basically you are trying to implement software-based memory
> > channel interleaving?
>
> I suppose that could be a fair characterization of the objective, though the
> approach taken here is very much a "poor man's" approach that attempts to
> improve things without requiring the "heavy lifting" required for a more
> complete solution.
>
It's still unfortunate that the concept of zones being primarily about
addressing or capability limitations changes. It's also difficult to use as
any user of it has to be very aware of the memory channel configuration of
the machine and know how to match addresses to channels. Information from
zoneinfo on start_pfns, spanned ranges and the like become less useful. It's
relatively minor but splitting the zones also means there is a performance
hit during compaction because pageblock_pfn_to_page is more expensive.
> That said, the use of page_alloc.shuffle is interesting here since it could
> improve the likelyhood of interleaving.
>
Exactly.
> >
> > > Since the BCM7278 contains a 4-core SMP cluster and each core can have
> > > multiple outstanding memory transactions the speed of DDR transactions can
> > > create a bottleneck for the system. If each memory controller has an
> > > effective bandwidth of X then, provided the system memory accesses can be
> > > distributed across both memory controllers, the combined effective bandwidth
> > > can be additive (X + X = 2X). Of course the actual result is highly
> > > dependent on the dependent clause "provided the system memory accesses can
> > > be distributed across both memory controllers". The accesses do not need to
> > > be evenly distributed to gain a benefit. We just want to reduce any idle
> > > time on each memory controller.
> > >
> > > It was observed that the monotonic zone layout for a non-NUMA system (like
> > > this one) creates a bias for kernel space to use lower physical memory
> > > addresses and user space to use higher physical memory addresses. Broadcom
> > > customers requested the ability to locate movablecore memory within the
> > > physical address range of each memory controller and reported that it
> > > improved their system performance. Unfortunately, I do not have access to
> > > their data and I doubt they would allow me to share it if I did. I don't
> > > believe this is really about trying to optimize the performance of a
> > > specific application as much as trying to prevent overall system performance
> > > degradation from underutilized memory bandwidth.
> > >
> >
> > So if I'm reading this right, the intent behind using ZONE_MOVABLE at
> > fixed address ranges is so most (but not all) user pages end up using
> > one controller and all kernel pages and some user pages use the other
> > controller. If kernel and userspace accesses are split 50/50, then the
> > memory bandwidth usage will be split across channels. However, if the
> > ratio of kernel:user accesses is large then the bandwidth usage will still
> > be assymetric.
> >
> > For example, if there are 10 times more accesses to kernel pages then user
> > pages, then one channel will receive most of the traffic. The reverse
> > is also true but to a lesser extent as user pages can use all zones and
> > kernel accesses use a subset. Depending on the access pattern, creating
> > separate zones may not help at all and in some cases, could make the problem
> > worse. The trap is that it might happen to work for a fixed appliance like
> > a TV with a predictable workload, it may not work in the general case.
> >
> > Splitting based on the __GFP_MOVABLE does not guarantee that idle time on
> > a memory controller can be reduced as it relies on the access pattern.
>
> You are not reading it quite right. We could accomplish the split you
> describe on a BCM7278 SoC with two memory controllers using the existing
> movablecore=50% kernel parameter. This would create a ZONE_MOVABLE on the
> high address memory controller and a ZONE_DMA on the low address memory
> controller.
>
Ok, I did misunderstand at the time that ZONE_MOVABLE would be split
between the controllers to improve interleaving of user accesses.
> What is of interest to Broadcom customers is to better distribute user space
> accesses across each memory controller to improve the bandwidth available to
> user space dominated work flows. With no ZONE_MOVABLE, the BCM7278 SoC with
> 1GB of memory on each memory controller will place the 1GB on the low
> address memory controller in ZONE_DMA and the 1GB on the high address memory
> controller in ZONE_NORMAL. With this layout movable allocation requests will
> only fallback to the ZONE_DMA (low memory controller) once the ZONE_NORMAL
> (high memory controller) is sufficiently depleted of free memory.
>
> Adding ZONE_MOVABLE memory above ZONE_NORMAL with the current movablecore
> behavior does not improve this situation other than forcing more kernel
> allocations off of the high memory controller. User space allocations are
> even more likely to be on the high memory controller.
>
But it's a weak promise that interleaving will happen. If only a portion
of ZONE_MOVABLE is used, it might still be all on the same channel. This
might improve over time if enough memory was used and the system was up
for long enough.
> The Designated Movable Block mechanism allows ZONE_MOVABLE memory to be
> located on the low memory controller to make it easier for user space
> allocations to land on the low memory controller. If ZONE_MOVABLE is only
> placed on the low memory controller then user space allocations can land in
> ZONE_NORMAL on the high memory controller, but only through fallback after
> ZONE_MOVABLE is sufficiently depleted of free memory which is just the
> reverse of the existing situation. The Designated Movable Block mechanism
> allows ZONE_MOVABLE memory to be located on each memory controller so that
> user space allocations have equal access to each memory controller until the
> ZONE_MOVABLE memory is depleted and fallback to other zones occurs.
>
> To my knowledge Broadcom customers that are currently using the Designated
> Movable Block mechanism are relying on the somewhat random starting and
> stopping of parallel user space processes to produce a more random
> distribution of ZONE_MOVABLE allocations across multiple memory controllers,
> but the page_alloc.shuffle mechanism seems like it would be a good addition
> to promote this randomness. Even better, it appears that page_alloc.shuffle
> is already enabled in the GKI configuration.
>
The "random starting and stopping of parallel user space processes" is
required for the mechanism to work. It's arbitrary and unknown if the
interleaving happens where as shuffle has an immediate, if random, impact.
> You are of course correct that the access patterns make all of the
> difference and it is almost certain that one memory controller or the other
> will be saturated at any given time, but the intent is to increase the
> opportunity to use more of the total bandwidth made available by the
> multiple memory controllers.
>
And shuffle should also provide that opportunity except it's trivial
to configure and only requires the user to know the memory channels are
not interleaved.
> >
> > > > There are already examples of where memory is physically "local" to
> > > > the CPU but has different bandwidth or latency including High Bandwidth
> > > > (HBM), Sub-NUMA Clustering (SNC), PMEM as a memory-life device and some
> > > > AMD EPYC Chips, particularly the first generation where a sockets memory
> > > > controllers had different distances. With the broadcom controllers,
> > > > it sounds like a local memory controller but the bandwidth available
> > > > differs. It's functionally equivalent to HBM.
> > >
> > > The bandwidth available does not differ, but if too few transactions target
> > > one of the memory controllers, that controllers bandwidth is underutilized.
> > >
> >
> > This is also a limitation of the patch series. Lets say the bulk of
> > accesses are to user pages allocated in ZONE_MOVABLE which correlates to
> > one memory channel then one channel gets saturated anyway.
> >
> > It also gets more complicated if there are more controllers because the
> > only division possible is between MOVABLE/everything else. An odd number
> > of channels will be difficult to split meaningfully.
>
> The patch series allows Designated Movable Blocks to occupy a portion of
> each memory controller while allowing the ZONE_MOVABLE zone to span all of
> the memory controllers. In this way user pages allocated from ZONE_MOVABLE
> may be distributed across all of the memory controllers. Use of
> page_alloc.shuffle should improve the randomness of this distribution.
> Memory outside of Designated Movable Blocks on each memory controller can be
> outside ZONE_MOVABLE (e.g. ZONE_DMA and ZONE_NORMAL) and managed
> accordingly. An odd number of channels need not affect this.
>
You're right, if ZONE_MOVABLE is split across the channels then the
number of channels is less important.
> >
> > > > The fact that the memory access is physically local to the CPU socket is
> > > > irrelevant when the characteristics of that locality differs. NUMA stands
> > > > for Non-Uniform Memory Access and if bandwidth to different address ranges
> > > > differs, then the system is inherently NUMA even if that is inconvenient.
> > >
> > > The bandwidth to different address ranges does not differ. A single threaded
> > > application should see no performance difference regardless of where its
> > > memory is located. However, if multiple application threads are executing in
> > > parallel and the memory is divided between the memory controllers they will
> > > be able to do more work per unit of time than if the memory is predominantly
> > > located on one memory controller.
> > >
> >
> > And if multiple application threads dominantly access user pages then
> > splitting the zone will not necessarily help, particularly if ZONE_MOVABLE
> > is not filled as the bulk of the accesses will still use one memory channel.
> >
> > > > In the appliance case, it doesn't matter if the intent is that "all
> > > > application data should use high bandwidth memory where possible and
> > > > the application phase behaviour is predictable" and that may very well
> > > > work fine for the users of the Broadcom platforms with multiple memory
> > > > controllers. It does not work at all for the general where access must
> > > > be restricted to a subset of tasks in a general system that can only be
> > > > controlled with memory policies.
> > > >
> > > > The high bandwidth memory should be representated as a NUMA node, optionally
> > > > to create that node as ZONE_MOVABLE and relying on the zonelists to select
> > > > the movable zone as the first preference.
> > > >
> > > This patch set is fundamentally about greater control over the placement of
> > > movablecore memory. The current implementation of movablecore requires all
> > > of the ZONE_MOVABLE memory to be located at the highest physical addresses
> > > of the system when CONFIG_NUMA is not set. Allowing the specification of a
> > > base address allows greater flexibility on systems where there are benefits.
> > >
> >
> > Unfortunately, while greater control of the ranges used by ZONE_MOVABLE
> > will help in some cases, it will not help in others and may be misleading.
> >
> > If memory accesses need to be interleaved in software then the free lists
> > need to be broken up into arenas within a zone by some boundary whether
> > that boundary is is fixed-length ranges, memory sections, memory channels
> > or specified explicitly on the kernel command line. Any allocation type
> > can use any arena with tasks moving to another arena based on contention,
> > pageblock type availability or interleaving round-robin explicitly.
> > Unfortunately, it's non-trivial to implement and a *lot* of heavy lifting.
> >
> > A somewhat awful hack would be to reorder top-level MAX_ORDER-1 list at
> > boot time. By default that list is ordered
> >
> > 1, 2, 3 ...... n-2, n-1, n
> >
> > If at boot time it was reordered to be
> >
> > 1, n, 2, n-1, 3, n-2 ......
> >
> > This would interleave all the early allocations across memory channels in
> > the case where channels are based on large contiguous physical ranges of
> > memory. Applications starting early would then interleave between channels
> > but after a period of time, it would be pseudo-random and it's weak.
> >
> > A similar, and probably better, option is to look at what page_alloc.shuffle=
> > does and randomly shuffle the free lists to randomly select between the
> > memory channels. I haven't looked at the implementation recently and forget
> > how it works exactly. Maybe it would benefit from being able to take ranges
> > that should be special cased for shuffling, particularly at boot time to
> > order it "1, n, 2, n-1" as described above or allowing SHUFFLE_ORDER to
> > be a lower value. Either way, shuffling would achieve similar goals of
> > spreading allocations between channels without assuming that the access
> > ratio of kernel:user is close to 1:1.
> >
>
> I decided to implement this very simple multi-threaded application as a
> testcase to experiment with the concepts discussed here:
> #include <stdio.h>
> #include <stdlib.h>
> #include <string.h>
> #include <pthread.h>
>
> #define BUF_SIZE (0x4000000)
> #define THREADS (4)
> #define COPY_COUNT (30)
>
> void *thread_function( void *ptr );
>
> int main()
> {
> pthread_t thread[THREADS];
> int i, iret[THREADS];
>
> for(i = 0; i < THREADS; i++)
> iret[i] = pthread_create( &thread[i], NULL, thread_function, (void*)
> NULL);
>
> for(i = 0; i < THREADS; i++)
> pthread_join( thread[i], NULL);
>
> for(i = 0; i < THREADS; i++)
> printf("Thread %d returns: %d\n", i, iret[i]);
> exit(0);
> }
>
> void *thread_function( void *ptr )
> {
> char *s, *d;
> int i;
>
> s = malloc(BUF_SIZE);
> if (!s)
> return NULL;
>
> d = malloc(BUF_SIZE);
> if (!d) {
> free(s);
> return NULL;
> }
>
> for (i = 0; i < COPY_COUNT; i++) {
> memcpy(d, s, BUF_SIZE);
> }
> free(s);
> free(d);
> }
>
Straight-forward, it's a meaningless load but relevant to this problem.
The buffers are small enough that all threads would likely sit on the same
controller with a vanilla kernel and compete for bandwidth.
> It meaninglessly moves data from one large dynamically allocated buffer to
> another a number of times without trying to be clever. I experimented with a
> Broadcom BCM7278 system with 1GB on each memory controller (i.e. 2GB total
> memory). The buffers were made large to render data caching meaningless and
> to require several pages to be allocated to populate the buffer.
>
> With V3 of this patch set applied to a 6.1-rc1 kernel I observed these
> results:
> With no movablecore kernel parameter specified:
> # time /tmp/thread_test
> Thread 1 returns: 0
> Thread 2 returns: 0
> Thread 3 returns: 0
> Thread 4 returns: 0
>
> real 0m4.047s
> user 0m14.183s
> sys 0m1.215s
>
> With this additional kernel parameter "movablecore=600M":
> # time /tmp/thread_test
> Thread 0 returns: 0
> Thread 1 returns: 0
> Thread 2 returns: 0
> Thread 3 returns: 0
>
> real 0m4.068s
> user 0m14.402s
> sys 0m1.117s
>
> With this additional kernel parameter "movablecore=600M@0x50000000":
> # time /tmp/thread_test
> Thread 0 returns: 0
> Thread 1 returns: 0
> Thread 2 returns: 0
> Thread 3 returns: 0
>
> real 0m4.010s
> user 0m13.979s
> sys 0m1.070s
>
> However, with these additional kernel parameters
> "movablecore=300M@0x60000000,300M@0x320000000 page_alloc.shuffle=1":
> # time /tmp/thread_test
> Thread 0 returns: 0
> Thread 1 returns: 0
> Thread 2 returns: 0
> Thread 3 returns: 0
>
> real 0m3.173s
> user 0m11.175s
> sys 0m1.067s
>
What were the results with just
"movablecore=300M@0x60000000,300M@0x320000000" on its own and
page_alloc.shuffle=1 on its own?
For shuffle on its own, my expectations are that the results will be
variable, sometimes good and sometimes bad, because it's at the mercy of
the randomisation. It might be slightly improved if the initial top-level
lists were ordered "1, n, 2, n-1, 3, n-2" optionally in __shuffle_zone or
if shuffle_pick_tail was aware of the memory channels but a lot more work
to implement.
--
Mel Gorman
SUSE Labs
