On Fri 12-07-19 14:12:30, Yafang Shao wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 1:29 PM Michal Hocko <mhocko@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri 12-07-19 09:47:14, Yafang Shao wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 7:42 AM Andrew Morton <akpm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:32:59 -0400 Yafang Shao <laoar.shao@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > After commit 815744d75152 ("mm: memcontrol: don't batch updates of local VM stats and events"),
> > > > > the local VM counters is not in sync with the hierarchical ones.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bellow is one example in a leaf memcg on my server (with 8 CPUs),
> > > > > inactive_file 3567570944
> > > > > total_inactive_file 3568029696
> > > > > We can find that the deviation is very great, that is because the 'val' in
> > > > > __mod_memcg_state() is in pages while the effective value in
> > > > > memcg_stat_show() is in bytes.
> > > > > So the maximum of this deviation between local VM stats and total VM
> > > > > stats can be (32 * number_of_cpu * PAGE_SIZE), that may be an unacceptable
> > > > > great value.
> > > > >
> > > > > We should keep the local VM stats in sync with the total stats.
> > > > > In order to keep this behavior the same across counters, this patch updates
> > > > > __mod_lruvec_state() and __count_memcg_events() as well.
> > > >
> > > > hm.
> > > >
> > > > So the local counters are presently more accurate than the hierarchical
> > > > ones because the hierarchical counters use batching. And the proposal
> > > > is to make the local counters less accurate so that the inaccuracies
> > > > will match.
> > > >
> > > > It is a bit counter intuitive to hear than worsened accuracy is a good
> > > > thing! We're told that the difference may be "unacceptably great" but
> > > > we aren't told why. Some additional information to support this
> > > > surprising assertion would be useful, please. What are the use-cases
> > > > which are harmed by this difference and how are they harmed?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Andrew,
> > >
> > > Both local counter and the hierachical one are exposed to user.
> > > In a leaf memcg, the local counter should be equal with the hierarchical one,
> > > if they are different, the user may wondering what's wrong in this memcg.
> > > IOW, the difference makes these counters not reliable, if they are not
> > > reliable we can't use them to help us anylze issues.
> >
> > But those numbers are in flight anyway. We do not stop updating them
> > while they are read so there is no guarantee they will be consistent
> > anyway, right?
>
> Right.
> They can't be guaranted to be consistent.
> When we read them, may only the local counters are updated and the
> hierarchical ones are not updated yet.
> But the current deviation is so great that can't be ignored.
Is really 32 pages per cpu all that great?
Please note that I am not objecting to the patch (yet) because I didn't
get to think about it thoroughly but I do agree with Andrew that the
changelog should state the exact problem including why it matters.
I do agree that inconsistencies are confusing but maybe we just need to
document the existing behavior better.
--
Michal Hocko
SUSE Labs
