On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 07, 2017 at 09:50:23AM +0100, Miklos Szeredi wrote: >> >> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 5:14 AM, Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@xxxxxxxxx> >> wrote: >>> >>> CC fuse maintainer, too. >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 05:09:27PM -0800, Andrew Morton wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:29:28 +0100 Jan Kara <jack@xxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu 30-11-17 14:15:58, Andrew Morton wrote: >>>>> > From: Maxim Patlasov <MPatlasov@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> > Subject: mm: add strictlimit knob >>>>> > >>>>> > The "strictlimit" feature was introduced to enforce per-bdi dirty >>>>> > limits >>>>> > for FUSE which sets bdi max_ratio to 1% by default: >>>>> > >>>>> > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.mm/105809 >>>>> > >>>>> > However the feature can be useful for other relatively slow or >>>>> > untrusted >>>>> > BDIs like USB flash drives and DVD+RW. The patch adds a knob to >>>>> > enable >>>>> > the feature: >>>>> > >>>>> > echo 1 > /sys/class/bdi/X:Y/strictlimit >>>>> > >>>>> > Being enabled, the feature enforces bdi max_ratio limit even if >>>>> > global >>>>> > (10%) dirty limit is not reached. Of course, the effect is not >>>>> > visible >>>>> > until /sys/class/bdi/X:Y/max_ratio is decreased to some reasonable >>>>> > value. >>>>> >>>>> In principle I have nothing against this and the usecase sounds >>>>> reasonable >>>>> (in fact I believe the lack of a feature like this is one of reasons >>>>> why >>>>> desktop automounters usually mount USB devices with 'sync' mount >>>>> option). >>>>> So feel free to add: >>>>> >>>>> Reviewed-by: Jan Kara <jack@xxxxxxx> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Cc Jens, who may be vaguely interested in plans to finally merge this >>>> three-year-old patch? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Maxim Patlasov <MPatlasov@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Subject: mm: add strictlimit knob >>>> >>>> The "strictlimit" feature was introduced to enforce per-bdi dirty limits >>>> for FUSE which sets bdi max_ratio to 1% by default: >>>> >>>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.mm/105809 >>> >>> >>> >>> That link is invalid for now, possibly due to the gmane site rebuild. >>> I find an email thread here which looks relevant: >>> >>> https://sourceforge.net/p/fuse/mailman/message/35254883/ >>> >>> Where Maxim has an interesting point: >>> >>> > Did any one try increasing the limit and did see any >>> better/worse >>>> >>>> performance ? >>> >>> >>> We've used 20% as default value in OpenVZ kernel for a long while >>> (1% >>> was not enough to saturate our distributed parallel storage). >>> >>> So the knob will also enable people to _disable_ the 1% fuse limit to >>> increase performance. >>> >>> So people can use the exposed knob in 2 ways to fit their needs, which >>> is in general a good thing. >>> >>> However the comment in wb_position_ratio() says >>> >>> Without strictlimit feature, fuse writeback may >>> * consume arbitrary amount of RAM because it is accounted in >>> * NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP which is not involved in calculating >>> "nr_dirty". >>> >>> How dangerous would that be if some user disabled the 1% fuse limit >>> through the exposed knob? Will the NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP effect go far >>> beyond the user's expectation (20% max dirty limit)? >>> >>> Looking at the fuse code, NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP will grow proportional to >>> WB_WRITEBACK, which should be throttled when bdi_write_congested(). >>> The congested flag will be set on >>> >>> fuse_conn.num_background >= fuse_conn.congestion_threshold >>> So it looks NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP will somehow be throttled. Just that >>> it's not included in the 20% dirty limit. >> >> >> Only balance_dirty_pages_ratelimited() is going to limit the >> generation of dirty pages, I don't think congestion flags will do >> that. > > > Right. However my concern is something to limit the generation of > fuse's _writeback_ pages. > > The normal writeback pages are limited in 2 ways: > > - balance_dirty_pages_ratelimited()'s dirty throttling: > > nr_dirty + nr_writeback + nr_unstable < global and/or bdi dirty limit > > - block layer's nr_requests queue limit > > However fuse's NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP looks special and has none of such > limits. The congested bit merely affect the vmscan pageout path. > > pageout > may_write_to_inode > inode_write_congested > wb_congested > > I wonder if fuse has its own approach to limit NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP? > Either explicitly or implicitly, there has to be some hard limit. > >> And (AFAICS) for fuse only BDI_CAP_STRICTLIMIT will allow >> accounting temp writeback pages when throttling dirty page generation. >> So without BDI_CAP_STRICTLIMIT kernel memory use of fuse may explode. >> So we probably need a way to force BDI_CAP_STRICTLIMIT (i.e. do not >> permit disabling it for fuse). > > > So fuse relies on small nr_dirty. Does fuse impose any explicit or > implicit rule that NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP will never exceed (N * nr_dirty)? > Otherwise the size of NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP cannot be guaranteed. > > For example, is it possible for some process (eg. dd) to dirty pages > as fast as possible while some other kernel logic to convert PG_dirty > to NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP as fast as possible, so that even the 1% bdi > strictlimit (which limits PG_dirty rather than NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP) > cannot stop all memory being eat up by ever growing NR_WRITEBACK_TEMP? Hmm, temp pages are still accounted as WB_WRITEBACK until writeback finishes. Does that not count towards the dirty limit? Thanks, Miklos -- To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in the body to majordomo@xxxxxxxxx. For more info on Linux MM, see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ . Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@xxxxxxxxx";> email@xxxxxxxxx </a>
