> -----Original Message----- > From: daniel.vetter@xxxxxxxx [mailto:daniel.vetter@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Daniel Vetter > Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:56 PM > To: Inki Dae > Cc: Rob Clark; linux-fbdev; DRI mailing list; Kyungmin Park; myungjoo.ham; > YoungJun Cho; linux-arm-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; linux- > media@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: Introduce a new helper framework for buffer synchronization > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Inki Dae <inki.dae@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Daniel Vetter [mailto:daniel.vetter@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Daniel > >> Vetter > >> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 4:45 PM > >> To: Inki Dae > >> Cc: 'Daniel Vetter'; 'Rob Clark'; 'linux-fbdev'; 'DRI mailing list'; > >> 'Kyungmin Park'; 'myungjoo.ham'; 'YoungJun Cho'; linux-arm- > >> kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; linux-media@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> Subject: Re: Introduce a new helper framework for buffer > synchronization > >> > >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 04:03:06PM +0900, Inki Dae wrote: > >> > > - Integration of fence syncing into dma_buf. Imo we should have a > >> > > per-attachment mode which decides whether map/unmap (and the new > >> sync) > >> > > should wait for fences or whether the driver takes care of > syncing > >> > > through the new fence framework itself (for direct hw sync). > >> > > >> > I think it's a good idea to have per-attachment mode for buffer sync. > >> But > >> > I'd like to say we make sure what is the purpose of map > >> > (dma_buf_map_attachment)first. This interface is used to get a sgt; > >> > containing pages to physical memory region, and map that region with > >> > device's iommu table. The important thing is that this interface is > >> called > >> > just one time when user wants to share an allocated buffer with dma. > But > >> cpu > >> > will try to access the buffer every time as long as it wants. > Therefore, > >> we > >> > need cache control every time cpu and dma access the shared buffer: > >> cache > >> > clean when cpu goes to dma and cache invalidate when dma goes to cpu. > >> That > >> > is why I added new interfaces, DMA_BUF_GET_FENCE and > DMA_BUF_PUT_FENCE, > >> to > >> > dma buf framework. Of course, Those are ugly so we need a better way: > I > >> just > >> > wanted to show you that in such way, we can synchronize the shared > >> buffer > >> > between cpu and dma. By any chance, is there any way that kernel can > be > >> > aware of when cpu accesses the shared buffer or is there any point I > >> didn't > >> > catch up? > >> > >> Well dma_buf_map/unmap_attachment should also flush/invalidate any > caches, > >> and with the current dma_buf spec those two functions are the _only_ > means > > > > I know that dma buf exporter should make sure that cache > clean/invalidate > > are done when dma_buf_map/unmap_attachement is called. For this, already > we > > do so. However, this function is called when dma buf import is requested > by > > user to map a dmabuf fd with dma. This means that > dma_buf_map_attachement() > > is called ONCE when user wants to share the dmabuf fd with dma. Actually, > in > > case of exynos drm, dma_map_sg_attrs(), performing cache operation > > internally, is called when dmabuf import is requested by user. > > > >> you have to do so. Which strictly means that if you interleave device > dma > >> and cpu acccess you need to unmap/map every time. > >> > >> Which is obviously horribly inefficient, but a known gap in the dma_buf > > > > Right, and also this has big overhead. > > > >> interface. Hence why I proposed to add dma_buf_sync_attachment similar > to > >> dma_sync_single_for_device: > >> > >> /** > >> * dma_buf_sync_sg_attachment - sync caches for dma access > >> * @attach: dma-buf attachment to sync > >> * @sgt: the sg table to sync (returned by dma_buf_map_attachement) > >> * @direction: dma direction to sync for > >> * > >> * This function synchronizes caches for device dma through the given > >> * dma-buf attachment when interleaving dma from different devices and > the > >> * cpu. Other device dma needs to be synced also by calls to this > >> * function (or a pair of dma_buf_map/unmap_attachment calls), cpu > access > >> * needs to be synced with dma_buf_begin/end_cpu_access. > >> */ > >> void dma_buf_sync_sg_attachment(struct dma_buf_attachment *attach, > >> struct sg_table *sgt, > >> enum dma_data_direction direction) > >> > >> Note that "sync" here only means to synchronize caches, not wait for > any > >> outstanding fences. This is simply to be consistent with the > established > >> lingo of the dma api. How the dma-buf fences fit into this is imo a > >> different topic, but my idea is that all the cache coherency barriers > >> (i.e. dma_buf_map/unmap_attachment, dma_buf_sync_sg_attachment and > >> dma_buf_begin/end_cpu_access) would automatically block for any > attached > >> fences (i.e. block for write fences when doing read-only access, block > for > >> all fences otherwise). > > > > As I mentioned already, kernel can't aware of when cpu accesses a shared > > buffer: user can access a shared buffer after mmap anytime and the > shared > > buffer should be synchronized between cpu and dma. Therefore, the above > > cache coherency barriers should be called every time cpu and dma tries > to > > access a shared buffer, checking before and after of cpu and dma access. > And > > exactly, the proposed way do such thing. For this, you can refer to the > > below link, > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/msg62124.html > > > > My point is that how kernel can aware of when those cache coherency > barriers > > should be called to synchronize caches and buffer access between cpu and > > dma. > > > >> > >> Then we could do a new dma_buf_attach_flags interface for special cases > >> (might also be useful for other things, similar to the recently added > >> flags in the dma api for wc/no-kernel-mapping/...). A new flag like > >> DMA_BUF_ATTACH_NO_AUTOFENCE would then mean that the driver takes care > of > >> all > >> fencing for this attachment and the dma-buf functions should not do the > >> automagic fence blocking. > >> > >> > In Linux kernel, especially embedded system, we had tried to > implement > >> > generic interfaces for buffer management; how to allocate a buffer > and > >> how > >> > to share a buffer. As a result, now we have CMA (Contiguous Memory > >> > Allocator) for buffer allocation, and we have DMA-BUF for buffer > sharing > >> > between cpu and dma. And then how to synchronize a buffer between cpu > >> and > >> > dma? I think now it's best time to discuss buffer synchronization > >> mechanism, > >> > and that is very natural. > >> > >> I think it's important to differentiate between the two meanings of > sync: > >> - synchronize caches (i.e. cpu cache flushing in most cases) > >> - and synchronize in-flight dma with fences. > >> > > > > Agree, and I meant that the buffer synchronization mechanism includes > the > > above two things. And I think the two things should be addressed > together. > > I'm still confused about what you're trying to achive in the big > picture here exactly. I think the key point is your statement above > that the kernel can't know when the cpu access a dma-buf. That's not > true though: > > For userspace mmaps the kernel can shoot down ptes and so prevent > userspace from accessing a buffer. In this case, cpu access to user space will incur page fault. However, cpu accesses user space region after mmap in user mode and every time user wants. And user needs something before passing a buffer accessed into device driver and also vice versa. > Since that's pretty inefficient > gem/ttm have additional ioctls for cache coherency transitions. Yes, that's the something, and that's a way now we are using if I understood surely. User side calls those ioctls for cache coherency between cpu and dma: cache clean after cpu access and before dma access, and cache invalidate after dma access and before cpu access. I thought it's better to control cache in kernel side than user because I had found some Linux based platforms overuse cache operations. So I thought the best place for it is the proposed fence helper or similar thing: we would need interfaces to notify the moment, 'before and after of cpu access', into kernel side. My proposal is to couple those two things, synchronizing caches and in-flight dma with fences, in kernel side. With this approach, user doesn't need to care when dma and cpu access will be started, and when dma and cpu access will be completed anymore when user wants to access a buffer and share it with dma. All things, cache coherency and buffer fencing between dma and cpu, will be done in kernel side. > dma_buf currently has no support for explicit coherency transitions > from userpsace, so if pte shootdown is an issue we need to improve > that. > > If I read your proposal correctly you instead suggest to _alway_ flush > cache before/after each dma. That will _completely_ kill performance > (been there with i915, trust me). > In case of using a cachable mapped buffer and sharing the buffer with dma, we need to clean cache after cpu access and before dma access, and we need to invalidate cache after dma access and before cpu access every time. Isn't that we are doing so now? I have a little knowledge about Desktop world so there might be my misunderstanding. Could you please give me advices and more comments if there is my missing point or misunderstanding? > For cpu access from kernel space we already have explicit mappings all > over the place (kmap&friends), so I don't see any issues with > inserting the relevant begin/end_cpu_access calls just around the cpu > access. The big exception is the framebuffer layer, but even that has > the deferred io support. KMS otoh has a nice frontbuffer dirty > interface to correctly support dumb clients, unfortunately fbcon does > not (yet) use that. > > For these reasons I don't see a need to smash cache coherency and > fencing into one problem, and hence why I've proposed to tackle each > of them individually. I might be really missing some points :) Thanks, Inki Dae > -Daniel > -- > Daniel Vetter > Software Engineer, Intel Corporation > +41 (0) 79 365 57 48 - http://blog.ffwll.ch -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
