On Martes, 1 de enero de 2013 16:51:21 Antti Palosaari escribió: > Hello > The origin of these errors is AF9035 I2C adapter (seems to be firmware > based) could not perform all I2C operations mxl5007t driver does. > mxl5007t_soft_reset() just writes single byte 0xff to the device => I > assume AF9035 I2C adapter wants two bytes. > > Unfortunately mxl5007t driver does not report error code coming from the > I2C adapter. I suspect it is EIO. You can see these errors reported by > adapter just enabling AF9035 debugs. > > Without the hardware I cannot do much. It is up to someone with the hw > to find out proper solution. > > Latest AF9035 tree, which contains dual tuner support is here > http://git.linuxtv.org/anttip/media_tree.git/shortlog/refs/heads/af9035 > I will pull request it very soon. > > regards > Antti > The I2C errors begin after a I2C read in the mxl5007t probe. It is the only one I2C read of the mxl5007t driver. Without the read the drive works well. I will send again the patch with the no_probe option when the dual tuner code is accepted. Jose Alberto > On 12/18/2012 11:32 PM, Eddi De Pieri wrote: > > Hi Antti and Jose > > > > I'd like to advise you that I tested this path since it solve issue on > > other af9035 devices like avermedia a835 and avermedia a867. > > > > I mean: > > mxl5007t_soft_reset: 522: failed! > > mxl5007t_tuner_init: error -140 on line 535 > > mxl5007t_set_params: error -140 on line 666 > > mxl5007t_soft_reset: 522: failed! > > mxl5007t_tuner_init: error -140 on line 535 > > mxl5007t_set_params: error -140 on line 666 > > mxl5007t_soft_reset: 522: failed! > > mxl5007t_tuner_init: error -140 on line 535 > > mxl5007t_set_params: error -140 on line 666 > > mxl5007t_soft_reset: 522: failed! > > mxl5007t_tuner_init: error -140 on line 535 > > mxl5007t_set_params: error -140 on line 666 > > > > It seems that no_reset and no_probe configuration parameter added by > > jose is needed for mxl5007t initialization. > > > > I suppose that the initialization is already done by the af9035 firmware. > > > > Regards > > > > Eddi De Pieri > > > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Antti Palosaari <crope@xxxxxx> wrote: > >> Hello Jose, > >> Could you try to split and resent? > >> > >> I will get af9035 + fc0012 dual tuner next week and add support for it. I > >> wish to use your patch for dual mode, but I as there is that unresolved > >> MXL5007t dependency I cannot user it currently. > >> > >> regards > >> Antti > >> > >> On 09/15/2012 08:45 PM, Antti Palosaari wrote: > >>> Hello > >>> Could you split that patch to 2? > >>> 1) mxl5007t changes > >>> 2) af9035/af9033 dual mode > >>> 3) af9035/af9033 changes needed for mxl5007t > >>> > >>> I cannot say much about tuner changes, but I still wonder are those > >>> really needed as this device is already supported. Is it broken > >>> currently? > >>> What happens when no_probe = 0 ? > >>> What happens when no_reset = 0 ? > >>> > >>> Soft reset means usually resetting chip state machine. It is something > >>> like "start operating" command. First program registers then issue soft > >>> reset in order to restart state machine. > >>> > >>> regards > >>> Antti > >>> > >>> On 08/30/2012 02:02 AM, Jose Alberto Reguero wrote: > >>>> This patch add support to the Avermedia Twinstar double tuner in the > >>>> af9035 > >>>> driver. Version 3 of the patch. > >>>> > >>>> Signed-off-by: Jose Alberto Reguero <jareguero@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > >>>> > >>>> Jose Alberto > >>>> > >>>> diff -upr linux/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/af9033.c > >>>> linux.new/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/af9033.c > >>>> --- linux/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/af9033.c 2012-08-14 > >>>> 05:45:22.000000000 +0200 > >>>> +++ linux.new/drivers/media/dvb-frontends/af9033.c 2012-08-29 > >>>> 16:00:52.020523899 +0200 > >>>> @@ -326,6 +326,18 @@ static int af9033_init(struct dvb_fronte > >>>> > >>>> goto err; > >>>> > >>>> } > >>>> > >>>> + if (state->cfg.ts_mode == AF9033_TS_MODE_SERIAL) { > >>>> + ret = af9033_wr_reg_mask(state, 0x00d91c, 0x01, 0x01); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9033_wr_reg_mask(state, 0x00d917, 0x00, 0x01); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9033_wr_reg_mask(state, 0x00d916, 0x00, 0x01); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + } > >>>> + > >>>> > >>>> state->bandwidth_hz = 0; /* force to program all parameters */ > >>>> > >>>> return 0; > >>>> > >>>> diff -upr linux/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.c > >>>> linux.new/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.c > >>>> --- linux/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.c 2012-08-14 > >>>> 05:45:22.000000000 +0200 > >>>> +++ linux.new/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.c 2012-08-29 > >>>> 13:07:57.299884405 +0200 > >>>> @@ -374,7 +374,6 @@ static struct reg_pair_t *mxl5007t_calc_ > >>>> > >>>> mxl5007t_set_if_freq_bits(state, cfg->if_freq_hz, > >>>> cfg->invert_if); > >>>> mxl5007t_set_xtal_freq_bits(state, cfg->xtal_freq_hz); > >>>> > >>>> - set_reg_bits(state->tab_init, 0x04, 0x01, cfg->loop_thru_enable); > >>>> > >>>> set_reg_bits(state->tab_init, 0x03, 0x08, cfg->clk_out_enable << > >>>> > >>>> 3); > >>>> > >>>> set_reg_bits(state->tab_init, 0x03, 0x07, cfg->clk_out_amp); > >>>> > >>>> @@ -531,9 +530,11 @@ static int mxl5007t_tuner_init(struct mx > >>>> > >>>> struct reg_pair_t *init_regs; > >>>> int ret; > >>>> > >>>> - ret = mxl5007t_soft_reset(state); > >>>> - if (mxl_fail(ret)) > >>>> - goto fail; > >>>> + if (!state->config->no_reset) { > >>>> + ret = mxl5007t_soft_reset(state); > >>>> + if (mxl_fail(ret)) > >>>> + goto fail; > >>>> + } > >>>> > >>>> /* calculate initialization reg array */ > >>>> init_regs = mxl5007t_calc_init_regs(state, mode); > >>>> > >>>> @@ -887,7 +888,11 @@ struct dvb_frontend *mxl5007t_attach(str > >>>> > >>>> if (fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl) > >>>> > >>>> fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl(fe, 1); > >>>> > >>>> - ret = mxl5007t_get_chip_id(state); > >>>> + if (!state->config->no_probe) > >>>> + ret = mxl5007t_get_chip_id(state); > >>>> + > >>>> + ret = mxl5007t_write_reg(state, 0x04, > >>>> + state->config->loop_thru_enable); > >>>> > >>>> if (fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl) > >>>> > >>>> fe->ops.i2c_gate_ctrl(fe, 0); > >>>> > >>>> diff -upr linux/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.h > >>>> linux.new/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.h > >>>> --- linux/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.h 2012-08-14 > >>>> 05:45:22.000000000 +0200 > >>>> +++ linux.new/drivers/media/tuners/mxl5007t.h 2012-08-25 > >>>> 19:38:19.990920623 +0200 > >>>> @@ -73,8 +73,10 @@ struct mxl5007t_config { > >>>> > >>>> enum mxl5007t_xtal_freq xtal_freq_hz; > >>>> enum mxl5007t_if_freq if_freq_hz; > >>>> unsigned int invert_if:1; > >>>> > >>>> - unsigned int loop_thru_enable:1; > >>>> + unsigned int loop_thru_enable:2; > >>>> > >>>> unsigned int clk_out_enable:1; > >>>> > >>>> + unsigned int no_probe:1; > >>>> + unsigned int no_reset:1; > >>>> > >>>> }; > >>>> > >>>> #if defined(CONFIG_MEDIA_TUNER_MXL5007T) || > >>>> > >>>> (defined(CONFIG_MEDIA_TUNER_MXL5007T_MODULE) && defined(MODULE)) > >>>> diff -upr linux/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.c > >>>> linux.new/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.c > >>>> --- linux/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.c 2012-08-16 > >>>> 05:45:24.000000000 +0200 > >>>> +++ linux.new/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.c 2012-08-29 > >>>> 19:20:00.862523903 +0200 > >>>> @@ -209,10 +209,14 @@ static int af9035_i2c_master_xfer(struct > >>>> > >>>> if (msg[0].len > 40 || msg[1].len > 40) { > >>>> > >>>> /* TODO: correct limits > 40 */ > >>>> ret = -EOPNOTSUPP; > >>>> > >>>> - } else if (msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[0].i2c_addr) { > >>>> + } else if ((msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[0].i2c_addr) > >>>> || > >>>> + (msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[1].i2c_addr)) { > >>>> > >>>> /* integrated demod */ > >>>> u32 reg = msg[0].buf[0] << 16 | msg[0].buf[1] << 8 | > >>>> > >>>> msg[0].buf[2]; > >>>> > >>>> + if (state->af9033_config[1].i2c_addr && > >>>> + (msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[1].i2c_addr)) > >>>> + reg |= 0x100000; > >>>> > >>>> ret = af9035_rd_regs(d, reg, &msg[1].buf[0], > >>>> > >>>> msg[1].len); > >>>> > >>>> } else { > >>>> > >>>> @@ -220,8 +224,9 @@ static int af9035_i2c_master_xfer(struct > >>>> > >>>> u8 buf[5 + msg[0].len]; > >>>> struct usb_req req = { CMD_I2C_RD, 0, sizeof(buf), > >>>> > >>>> buf, msg[1].len, msg[1].buf }; > >>>> > >>>> + req.mbox |= ((msg[0].addr & 0x80) >> 3); > >>>> > >>>> buf[0] = msg[1].len; > >>>> > >>>> - buf[1] = msg[0].addr << 1; > >>>> + buf[1] = (u8)(msg[0].addr << 1); > >>>> > >>>> buf[2] = 0x00; /* reg addr len */ > >>>> buf[3] = 0x00; /* reg addr MSB */ > >>>> buf[4] = 0x00; /* reg addr LSB */ > >>>> > >>>> @@ -232,10 +237,14 @@ static int af9035_i2c_master_xfer(struct > >>>> > >>>> if (msg[0].len > 40) { > >>>> > >>>> /* TODO: correct limits > 40 */ > >>>> ret = -EOPNOTSUPP; > >>>> > >>>> - } else if (msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[0].i2c_addr) { > >>>> + } else if ((msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[0].i2c_addr) > >>>> || > >>>> + (msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[1].i2c_addr)) { > >>>> > >>>> /* integrated demod */ > >>>> u32 reg = msg[0].buf[0] << 16 | msg[0].buf[1] << 8 | > >>>> > >>>> msg[0].buf[2]; > >>>> > >>>> + if (state->af9033_config[1].i2c_addr && > >>>> + (msg[0].addr == state->af9033_config[1].i2c_addr)) > >>>> + reg |= 0x100000; > >>>> > >>>> ret = af9035_wr_regs(d, reg, &msg[0].buf[3], > >>>> > >>>> msg[0].len - 3); > >>>> > >>>> } else { > >>>> > >>>> @@ -243,8 +252,9 @@ static int af9035_i2c_master_xfer(struct > >>>> > >>>> u8 buf[5 + msg[0].len]; > >>>> struct usb_req req = { CMD_I2C_WR, 0, sizeof(buf), buf, > >>>> > >>>> 0, NULL }; > >>>> > >>>> + req.mbox |= ((msg[0].addr & 0x80) >> 3); > >>>> > >>>> buf[0] = msg[0].len; > >>>> > >>>> - buf[1] = msg[0].addr << 1; > >>>> + buf[1] = (u8)(msg[0].addr << 1); > >>>> > >>>> buf[2] = 0x00; /* reg addr len */ > >>>> buf[3] = 0x00; /* reg addr MSB */ > >>>> buf[4] = 0x00; /* reg addr LSB */ > >>>> > >>>> @@ -283,9 +293,30 @@ static int af9035_identify_state(struct > >>>> > >>>> int ret; > >>>> u8 wbuf[1] = { 1 }; > >>>> u8 rbuf[4]; > >>>> > >>>> + u8 tmp; > >>>> > >>>> struct usb_req req = { CMD_FW_QUERYINFO, 0, sizeof(wbuf), wbuf, > >>>> > >>>> sizeof(rbuf), rbuf }; > >>>> > >>>> + /* check if there is dual tuners */ > >>>> + ret = af9035_rd_reg(d, EEPROM_DUAL_MODE, &tmp); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + > >>>> + if (tmp) { > >>>> + /* read 2nd demodulator I2C address */ > >>>> + ret = af9035_rd_reg(d, EEPROM_2WIREADDR, &tmp); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00417f, tmp); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d81a, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + } > >>>> + > >>>> > >>>> ret = af9035_ctrl_msg(d, &req); > >>>> if (ret < 0) > >>>> > >>>> goto err; > >>>> > >>>> @@ -492,7 +523,14 @@ static int af9035_read_config(struct dvb > >>>> > >>>> state->dual_mode = tmp; > >>>> pr_debug("%s: dual mode=%d\n", __func__, state->dual_mode); > >>>> > >>>> - > >>>> + if (state->dual_mode) { > >>>> + /* read 2nd demodulator I2C address */ > >>>> + ret = af9035_rd_reg(d, EEPROM_2WIREADDR, &tmp); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + state->af9033_config[1].i2c_addr = tmp; > >>>> + pr_debug("%s: 2nd demod I2C addr:%02x\n", __func__, tmp); > >>>> + } > >>>> > >>>> for (i = 0; i < state->dual_mode + 1; i++) { > >>>> > >>>> /* tuner */ > >>>> ret = af9035_rd_reg(d, EEPROM_1_TUNER_ID + eeprom_shift, > >>>> &tmp); > >>>> > >>>> @@ -671,6 +709,12 @@ static int af9035_frontend_callback(void > >>>> > >>>> return -EINVAL; > >>>> > >>>> } > >>>> > >>>> +static int af9035_get_adapter_count(struct dvb_usb_device *d) > >>>> +{ > >>>> + struct state *state = d_to_priv(d); > >>>> + return state->dual_mode + 1; > >>>> +} > >>>> + > >>>> > >>>> static int af9035_frontend_attach(struct dvb_usb_adapter *adap) > >>>> { > >>>> > >>>> struct state *state = adap_to_priv(adap); > >>>> > >>>> @@ -726,13 +770,26 @@ static const struct fc0011_config af9035 > >>>> > >>>> .i2c_address = 0x60, > >>>> > >>>> }; > >>>> > >>>> -static struct mxl5007t_config af9035_mxl5007t_config = { > >>>> - .xtal_freq_hz = MxL_XTAL_24_MHZ, > >>>> - .if_freq_hz = MxL_IF_4_57_MHZ, > >>>> - .invert_if = 0, > >>>> - .loop_thru_enable = 0, > >>>> - .clk_out_enable = 0, > >>>> - .clk_out_amp = MxL_CLKOUT_AMP_0_94V, > >>>> +static struct mxl5007t_config af9035_mxl5007t_config[] = { > >>>> + { > >>>> + .xtal_freq_hz = MxL_XTAL_24_MHZ, > >>>> + .if_freq_hz = MxL_IF_4_57_MHZ, > >>>> + .invert_if = 0, > >>>> + .loop_thru_enable = 0, > >>>> + .clk_out_enable = 0, > >>>> + .clk_out_amp = MxL_CLKOUT_AMP_0_94V, > >>>> + .no_probe = 1, > >>>> + .no_reset = 1, > >>>> + }, { > >>>> + .xtal_freq_hz = MxL_XTAL_24_MHZ, > >>>> + .if_freq_hz = MxL_IF_4_57_MHZ, > >>>> + .invert_if = 0, > >>>> + .loop_thru_enable = 3, > >>>> + .clk_out_enable = 1, > >>>> + .clk_out_amp = MxL_CLKOUT_AMP_0_94V, > >>>> + .no_probe = 1, > >>>> + .no_reset = 1, > >>>> + } > >>>> > >>>> }; > >>>> > >>>> static struct tda18218_config af9035_tda18218_config = { > >>>> > >>>> @@ -795,46 +852,52 @@ static int af9035_tuner_attach(struct dv > >>>> > >>>> &d->i2c_adap, &af9035_fc0011_config); > >>>> > >>>> break; > >>>> > >>>> case AF9033_TUNER_MXL5007T: > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8e0, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8e1, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8df, 0); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> + state->tuner_address[adap->id] = 0x60; > >>>> + /* hack, use b[7] to carry used I2C-bus */ > >>>> + state->tuner_address[adap->id] |= (adap->id << 7); > >>>> + if (adap->id == 0) { > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8e0, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8e1, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8df, 0); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> > >>>> - msleep(30); > >>>> + msleep(30); > >>>> > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8df, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8df, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> > >>>> - msleep(300); > >>>> + msleep(300); > >>>> > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8c0, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8c1, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8bf, 0); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8b4, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8b5, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> - ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8b3, 1); > >>>> - if (ret < 0) > >>>> - goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8c0, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8c1, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8bf, 0); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8b4, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8b5, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + ret = af9035_wr_reg(d, 0x00d8b3, 1); > >>>> + if (ret < 0) > >>>> + goto err; > >>>> + } > >>>> > >>>> /* attach tuner */ > >>>> fe = dvb_attach(mxl5007t_attach, adap->fe[0], > >>>> > >>>> - &d->i2c_adap, 0x60, &af9035_mxl5007t_config); > >>>> + &d->i2c_adap, state->tuner_address[adap->id], > >>>> + &af9035_mxl5007t_config[adap->id]); > >>>> > >>>> break; > >>>> > >>>> case AF9033_TUNER_TDA18218: > >>>> /* attach tuner */ > >>>> > >>>> @@ -879,8 +942,8 @@ static int af9035_init(struct dvb_usb_de > >>>> > >>>> { 0x00dd8a, (frame_size >> 0) & 0xff, 0xff}, > >>>> { 0x00dd8b, (frame_size >> 8) & 0xff, 0xff}, > >>>> { 0x00dd0d, packet_size, 0xff }, > >>>> > >>>> - { 0x80f9a3, 0x00, 0x01 }, > >>>> - { 0x80f9cd, 0x00, 0x01 }, > >>>> + { 0x80f9a3, state->dual_mode, 0x01 }, > >>>> + { 0x80f9cd, state->dual_mode, 0x01 }, > >>>> > >>>> { 0x80f99d, 0x00, 0x01 }, > >>>> { 0x80f9a4, 0x00, 0x01 }, > >>>> > >>>> }; > >>>> > >>>> @@ -1001,7 +1064,7 @@ static const struct dvb_usb_device_prope > >>>> > >>>> .init = af9035_init, > >>>> .get_rc_config = af9035_get_rc_config, > >>>> > >>>> - .num_adapters = 1, > >>>> + .get_adapter_count = af9035_get_adapter_count, > >>>> > >>>> .adapter = { > >>>> > >>>> { > >>>> > >>>> .stream = DVB_USB_STREAM_BULK(0x84, 6, 87 * 188), > >>>> > >>>> diff -upr linux/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.h > >>>> linux.new/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.h > >>>> --- linux/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.h 2012-08-14 > >>>> 05:45:22.000000000 +0200 > >>>> +++ linux.new/drivers/media/usb/dvb-usb-v2/af9035.h 2012-08-29 > >>>> 12:31:28.630973960 +0200 > >>>> @@ -54,6 +54,8 @@ struct state { > >>>> > >>>> bool dual_mode; > >>>> > >>>> struct af9033_config af9033_config[2]; > >>>> > >>>> + > >>>> + u8 tuner_address[2]; > >>>> > >>>> }; > >>>> > >>>> u32 clock_lut[] = { > >>>> > >>>> @@ -87,6 +89,7 @@ u32 clock_lut_it9135[] = { > >>>> > >>>> /* EEPROM locations */ > >>>> #define EEPROM_IR_MODE 0x430d > >>>> #define EEPROM_DUAL_MODE 0x4326 > >>>> > >>>> +#define EEPROM_2WIREADDR 0x4327 > >>>> > >>>> #define EEPROM_IR_TYPE 0x4329 > >>>> #define EEPROM_1_IFFREQ_L 0x432d > >>>> #define EEPROM_1_IFFREQ_H 0x432e > >> > >> -- > >> http://palosaari.fi/ > >> -- > >> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in > >> the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
