On 17/01/2023 16:38, Tomasz Maciej Nowak wrote: > Hi. > > W dniu 16.01.2023 o 15:39, Hans Verkuil pisze: >> On 16/01/2023 14:35, Corinna Vinschen wrote: >>> Hi Hans, >>> >>> On Jan 16 11:08, Hans Verkuil wrote: >>>> Hi Corinna, >>>> >>>> On 16/01/2023 10:53, Corinna Vinschen wrote: >>>>> Hi Hans, >>>>> >>>>> I only learned about this yesterday, so I hope I'm not too late. >>>>> >>>>> Please don't do that. You're about to remove working drivers used by a >>>>> lot of people. >>>>> >>>>> If you remove them from the Linux kernel, you will leave *lots* of DVB-C >>>>> and DVB-S card users behind. They will update their TV recording >>>>> machines to a newer system at one point and suddenly their ability to >>>>> record from TV is gone forever. >>>>> >>>>> I'm personally affected by this as well. We're using a machine with >>>>> four Technotrend S2-3200 Budget DVB-S2 cards for TV recordings using >>>>> the VDR package. This card is apparently handled by the code under >>>>> drivers/staging/media/deprecated/saa7146. >>>>> >>>>> If this code goes away, we will have to keep the machine running on >>>>> an old kernel for a long time. >>>>> >>>>> I'm fortunate that I even learned about this developement, being a >>>>> developer myself, but how's a normal user to know that a Linux driver >>>>> they are using every day is about to be removed from the kernel? Again, >>>>> please don't break the equipment of us users of these DVB-C and DVB-S >>>>> cards for the future. >>>> >>>> I've dropped the PR for now. >>> >>> I'm really glad to read that. > > Thanks from me as well. > >>>> Is the concern specifically for the saa7146 >>>> based hardware? >>>> >>>> I.e., from Red Hat's point of view, are there any concerns about removing >>>> vpfe_capture, tm6000, zr364xx, stkwebcam, fsl-viu, cpia2 and meye? >>> >>> I'm not part of the Red Hat media team, so I can't answer that, sorry. >>> >>> The problem is that there are no usage numbers anywhere. I don't know >>> which of these drivers are still in use and which aren't. I only know >>> for certain for our saa7146 based cards @home. Terratec was the market >>> leader for quite some time, so there are lots of Terratec cards and >>> budget cards from third party vendors in the wild. > > I've got six of saa7146 based DVB-S2 budget cards still in use. > Apparently You can still buy a new one[1] which is supported by budget > driver. > >>>> The core problem with saa7146 (and the other deprecated drivers) is that >>>> it is using the old videobuf framework, which has known problems and we >>>> want (need!) to get rid of it, either by dropping drivers or converting >>>> them. >>>> >>>> One partial solution would be to drop analog video support from saa7146, >>>> since that's the bit that uses this framework. DVB would remain working, >>>> but analog video support would die, unless someone steps up to do the >>>> conversion from vb1 to vb2. > > There is ongoing discussion in VDR community about converting to vb2, > albeit it's very slow and I don't know yet if it'll reach a conclusion. > And, as proposed, keeping it in staging area or keeping the driver with > stripped analog video capabilities would definitely help. > >>> Maybe I'm biased, but who has actually still access to analog TV? I'm >>> not sure about that, but in Germany, analog TV over terrestrial antenna >>> has been dropped about 2005. Analog satellite has gone 2012. Analog >>> cable took until 2019. I don't know about other regions. >> >> Analog TV is almost certainly still used in places. >> >> But it's not so much about TV as it is about analog video in general, so >> also capturing from S-Video or composite connectors. That's definitely >> still used. >> >>> >>>> So support for the old MXB, Hexium Gemini and Hexium Orion would die, but >>>> for the other DVB devices it would stay alive. >>> >>> So, yeah, from my POV this might be an option. >>> >>>> I'm honestly quite surprised that these old DVB PCI cards are still in >>>> use, I did not expect that. >>> >>> There isn't a really well-working alternative, unless you plug in lots >>> of USB devices instead. Even more important these days, the cards are >>> still working, despite their age. There's really no good reason to >>> throw them into the dustbin and buy something new, instead of trying to >>> use working equipment as long as possible to save waste. >> >> OK, I'll make a new PR that keeps the saa7146 for now, and work on removing >> analog video support from saa7146. > > Thank You, that would certainly make me satisfied. Would that mean that > after removing analog video support, driver would go out of staging, back > to maintained area? Yes, since there is no reason to keep it in staging once that's done. Regards, Hans > > Best Regards > > 1. https://www.omicom.info/PayPal_Omicom_S2_PCIr3.html >
