On Mon, 8 Feb 2010, Chicken Shack wrote: > > This is a SCANDAL, not fun! This is SCANDALOUS! I agree that this whole thread has been totally inappropriate from beginning to end. On all sides, btw. I would suggest that somebody who can't even use his own name should be the last to complain about other peoples behavior. I have suspicions that the reason you're not using your own name and instead go by "Chicken Shack" is that you're one of the DVB people that get ignored because everybody knows you always just argue mindlessly, so now you use made-up accounts just to not be immediately ignored. And if that is the case, you should take a hard look at your _own_ behavior, and ask yourself why you get ignored on multiple accounts. When people ignore your bug reports, maybe it's because they know that the pain of interacting with you is simply NOT WORTH IT? Anyway, the amount of just this kind of pure _crap_ in the whole DVB development environment is scary. There are no other areas of Linux kernel development where we see this kind of personal and _pointless_ invective. I realize that I probably see the absolute sewer of the whole discussion, since people seem to Cc me only when things are going badly, but _still_. I don't see that kind of childish behavior anywhere else in kernel development. Guys, get a f*cking grip already. Here's the rule: - if somebody reports a regression, IT MUST BE FIXED. Not "discussed" for two weeks. Not talked around. If we have a bisected commit that starts oopsing with an existing setup that used to work, there is no discussion. That commit absolutely _has_ to be reverted or fixed. No ifs, buts, or maybes about it. Anybody who argues anything else is simply totally wrong. And discussing various semantic changes or asking people to use other programs instead of the one that causes the problem is totally irrelevant until the oops has been fixed. An oops is not acceptable in _any_ situation, and saying that the user program is doing something wrong is totally ludicrous. So is breaking a program that used to work. The fix, btw, for those that haven't seen it, seems to be here: http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/77615/ and people should look at that fix, the explanation, and feel embarrassed about th pure crazy invective that has been going on in this thread. It was a simple bug, nothing more. It was not worth the intense level of craziness seen in this thread. Btw, there's a very real reason I haven't replied to this thread before: I don't like the DVB development process. I've seen the crazyness before, and I don't know where it comes from. Some people blame Mauro, but the thing is, this whole problem with the DVB development tone used to be _worse_. It's likely some deep social reason. I have a few suspicions, but they are just guesses. For example, I suspect it's partly because DVB gets a much less wide development audience - there are clearly some people in the DVB driver area that are totally unable to see anything but their own small area, and they are too focused on just some detail, and then they get upset when others care about other details or about the big picture. I admit that I used to think that it was because a lot of the people involved were Germans, and that the whole mindless bickering was somehow cultural. A _lot_ of the worst invective comes from exactly places like 'gmx.de', which seems to be one of the big mail servers in Germany. But there are lots of _good_ developers with that address too, so I suspect my "Oh, it's the Germans" explanation was just a funny/sad prejudice. Why can't DVB people be sane? Please, guys? And btw, don't in any way think that I think that the problem has just been that people have had a hard time just admitting that that commit that caused the oops need to be fixed. One of the reasons I think people had a hard time fixing the regression was that the original bug report, and all the invective was all just totally hiding the real issue. Instead of making a nice bugzilla and talking about the technical problem, the whole beginning of this thread from Chicken Shack has been all about shouting at people. I'm perfectly happy with shouting at people (I'm doing it right now), but damn, this thread has just been totally incoherent and stupid. Put some real _technical_ reasoning in your crazy rants. So damn it, stop cc'ing me on DVB issues. Chicken Shack - I very much mean you. I'm not interested in crazy bickering. If you Cc me, include proper technical details, and keep it at that level. And Mauro &co: get me that fix, and stop discussing anything else until the actual oops has been fixed. Everybody: start acting like adults, guys. Linus -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-media" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
