On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:52 PM, Kees Cook <keescook@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:15 AM, Arnd Bergmann <arnd@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 9:52 PM, Kees Cook <keescook@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> The original gcc-4.3 release was in early 2008. If we decide to still >>>>>> support that, we probably want the first 10 quirks in this series, >>>>>> while gcc-4.6 (released in 2011) requires none of them. >>>> >>>> I'd be in support of raising the minimum to gcc 4.6. (I'd actually >>>> prefer 4.7, just to avoid some 4.6 packaging issues, and for better >>>> gcc plugin support.) >>>> >>>> I'm curious what gcc 4.6 binaries are common in the wild besides >>>> old-stable Debian (unsupported in maybe a year from now?) and 12.04 >>>> Ubuntu (going fully unsupported in 2 weeks). It looks like 4.6 was >>>> used only in Fedora 15 and 16 (both EOL). >>> >>> I think we are better off defining two versions: One that we know >>> a lot of people care about, and we actively try to make that work >>> well in all configurations (e.g. 4.6, 4.7 or 4.8), fixing all warnings >>> we run into, and an older version that we try not to break >>> intentionally (e.g. 3.4, 4.1 or 4.3) but that we only fix when >>> someone actually runs into a problem they can't work around >>> by upgrading to a more modern compiler. >> >> For "working well everywhere" I feel like 4.8 is the better of those >> three (I'd prefer 4.9). I think we should avoid 4.6 -- it seems not >> widely used. > > I suspect that 4.9 might be the one that actually works best > across architectures, and it contained some very significant > changes. In my testing gcc-5 tends to behave very similarly > to 4.9, and gcc-6 introduced a larger number of new warnings, > so that would clearly be too new for a recommended version. > > The suggestion of 4.9 or higher is appealing as a recommendation > because it matches what I would personally tell people: > > - If you have gcc-4.9 or newer and you don't rely on any newer > features, there is no need to upgrade > - Wth gcc-4.8, the -Wmaybe-uninitialized warnings are now turned > off because they were too noisy, so upgrading is probably a good > idea even though the compiler is otherwise ok and in widespread > use > - gcc-4.6 and 4.7 are basically usable for building kernels, but the > warning output is often counterproductive, and the generated > object code may be noticeably worse. > - anything before gcc-4.6 is missing too many features to be > useful on ARM, but may still be fine on other architectures. > > On the other hand, there is a noticeable difference in compile > speed, as a 5% slowdown compared to the previous release > apparently is not considered a regression. These are the times > I see for building ARM 'vexpress_defconfig': > > gcc-4.4: real 0m47.269s user 11m48.576s > gcc-4.5: real 0m44.878s user 10m58.900s > gcc-4.6: real 0m44.621s user 11m34.716s > gcc-4.7: real 0m47.476s user 12m42.924s > gcc-4.8: real 0m48.494s user 13m19.736s > gcc-4.9: real 0m50.140s user 13m44.876s > gcc-5.x: real 0m51.302s user 14m05.564s > gcc-6.x: real 0m54.615s user 15m06.304s > gcc-7.x: real 0m56.008s user 15m44.720s > > That is a factor of 1.5x in CPU cycles between slowest and > fastest, so there is clearly a benefit to keeping the old versions > around, but there is also no clear cut-off other thannoticing > that gcc-4.4 is slower than 4.5 in this particular > configuration. > >> For an old compiler... yikes. 3.4 sounds insane to me. :) > > That was my initial thought as well. On ARM, it clearly is > insane, as even gcc-4.0 is unable to build any of the modern > defconfigs (lacking -mabi=aapcs, ICE when building vsprintf.c) > and even the patch I did to get gcc-4.1 to build is probably > too ugly to get merged, so to build any unpatched kernel after > linux-3.6 you need at least gcc-4.2, or even gcc-4.4 for the > ''defconfig' (gcc-4.3 if you disable vdso). > > Then again, on x86, old cmpilers were claimed to be much better > supported. I just tried it out and found that no x86 defconfig kernel > since linux-3.2 could be built with gcc-3.4, probably not on any > other architecture either (it cannot have forward declarations > for inline functions and we have one in kernel/sched_fair.c). > > I think that would be a really good argument for requiring > something newer ;-) > > The linux-4.2 x86 defconfig could still be built with gcc-4.0, but > later kernels have several minor problems with that, and > require at least gcc-4.3. > > If we are ok with this status quo, we could simply declare gcc-4.3 > the absolute minimum version for the kernel, make gcc-4.9 > the recommeded minimum version, and remove all workarounds > for gcc-4.2 or older. I think starting with this would be a good first step. I'm not sure the best way to add "recommended minimum" to Documentation/process/changes.rst hmmm > If anyone has a good reason for gcc-4.0 through gcc-4.2, then > we would need a small number of patches to get them back > working with x86 defconfig. -Kees -- Kees Cook Pixel Security -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kbuild" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
