On 03/28/2018 08:14 AM, Dr. Greg Wettstein wrote:
On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 07:10:12AM -0400, Stefan Berger wrote:
Good morning, I hope the day is starting out well for everyone.
On 03/27/2018 07:01 PM, Eric W. Biederman wrote:
Stefan Berger <stefanb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
From: Yuqiong Sun <suny@xxxxxxxxxx>
Add new CONFIG_IMA_NS config option. Let clone() create a new IMA
namespace upon CLONE_NEWUSER flag. Attach the ima_ns data structure
to user_namespace. ima_ns is allocated and freed upon IMA namespace
creation and exit, which is tied to USER namespace creation and exit.
Currently, the ima_ns contains no useful IMA data but only a dummy
interface. This patch creates the framework for namespacing the different
aspects of IMA (eg. IMA-audit, IMA-measurement, IMA-appraisal).
Tying IMA to the user namespace is far better than tying IMA
to the mount namespace. It may even be the proper answer.
You had asked what it would take to unstick this so you won't have
problems next time you post and I did not get as far as answering.
I had a conversation a while back with Mimi and I believe what was
agreed was that IMA to start doing it's thing early needs a write
to securityfs/imafs.
Above you say 'proper answer' for user namespace. Now this sounds like
making it independent.
As such I expect the best way to create the ima namespace is by simply
writing to securityfs/imafs. Possibly before the user namespace is
even unshared. That would allow IMA to keep track of things from
before a container is created.
So you are saying to not tie it to user namespace but make it an
independent namespace and to not use a clone flag (0x1000) but use
the filesystem to spawn a new namespace. Should that be an IMA
specific file or a file that can be shared with other subsystems?
We've been platforming solutions for about 18 months now on top of a
namespaced IMA implementation that we developed and carry against the
4.4.x kernel. Technically its not an IMA namespace, but rather a
behavioral namespace, since we implement information exchange event
modeling, conceptually though its all the same and its origins were
IMA.
Are you intending to make this publicly available and/or contribute it ?
In some configurations we run unmodified Docker containers inside the
behavioral/IMA namespace. So if experience is a useful metric the
'integrity' namespace needs to be a first class entity and not
subordinate or tied to any other resource namespaces. We would also
recommend, again based on our experiences, the use of a clone flag.
We have been using a clone flag in the first implementation, the mount
flag afterwards.We treat containers independent of the host, meaning
that it has its own policy, independent of the host, and allows for
signed files inside containers to enable IMA-appraisal. It does require
modifications to user space applications like Docker that have to pick
up the file signatures.
FWIW, at this point we have hoisted a lot of the integrity
functionality out of the kernel and up into userspace so it can be run
in a trusted execution environment. There are always the issues with
kernel<->userspace communication, particularly of the symmetric
variety, but userspace seems to be a much better place for a lot of
this functionality. If the ELF module discussion is any indication it
Like what functionality? Are you supporting IMA-appraisal? Are you doing
IMA-measurements? What about IMA-audit? Following our intended IMA
namespacing, all of this would be done in the kernel following an IMA
policy parsed by the kernel.
appears as if userspace and the kernel may be destined to become more
symbiotic in the future.
Just our two cents.
Stefan
Have a good remainder of the week.
Dr. Greg
As always,
Dr. G.W. Wettstein, Ph.D. Enjellic Systems Development, LLC.
4206 N. 19th Ave. Specializing in information infra-structure
Fargo, ND 58102 development.
PH: 701-281-1686
FAX: 701-281-3949 EMAIL: greg@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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