Hello Mr. Torokhov,
Greetings!
First of all, i am sorry but i am using office's computer,
so cannot install any 3rd party software due to restriction.
Using, Re(2): (Aniroop Mathur) for my comments.
On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 02:55:33AM +0530, Aniroop Mathur wrote:
> Hello Mr. Torokhov,
> Greetings!
>
> First of all, So sorry, unfortunately i used HTML text again.
> and Many thanks for all replies.
>
> Sending email again in plain text.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 12:41 AM, Dmitry Torokhov
> wrote:
> > Hi Aniroop,
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 04:49:43PM +0000, Aniroop Mathur wrote:
> >> Hello Mr. Torokhov,
> >> Greetings!
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 09, 2014 at 10:27:56AM +0530, Aniroop Mathur wrote:
> >> > This patch allows user(driver) to set sysfs node name of input
> >> > devices. To set sysfs node name, user(driver) just needs to set
> >> > node_name_unique variable. If node_name_unique is not set, default
> >> > name is given(as before). So, this patch is completely
> >> > backward-compatible.
> >> >
> >> > Sysfs Input node name format is: input_
> >> > Sysfs Event node name format is: event_
> >> >
> >> > This "name" is given by user and automatically, prefix(input and
> >> > event) is added by input core.
> >> >
> >> > This name must be unique among all input devices and driver(user) has
> >> > the responsibility to ensure it. If same name is used again for other
> >> > input device, registration of that input device will fail because two
> >> > input devices cannot have same name.
> >> >
> >> > Advantages of this patch are:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Reduces Booting Time of HAL/Upper-Layer because now HAL or
> >> > Upper-Layer do not need to search input/event number corresponding to
> >> > each input device in /dev/input/... This searching in /dev/input/ was
> >> > taking too much time. (Especially in mobile devices, where there are
> >> > many input devices (many sensors, touchscreen, etc), it reduces a lot
> >> > of booting time)
> >>
> >> I am sorry, how much time does it take to scan a directory of what, 20
> >> devices? If it such a factor have udev create nodes that are easier for
> >> you to locate, similarly how we already create nodes by-id and by-path.
> >> For example you can encode major:minor in device name.
> >>
> >> Re: (Aniroop Mathur)
> >
> > First of all, it would be great if you could use MUA that can properly
> > quote and wrap long lines...
> >
> >> Its correct that we can set name of a device node using udev. Yes,
> >> this will change the name of device node(/dev/...) but not sysfs
> >> node.(/sys/class/input/...) So now, the problem area will shift from
> >> dev path to sysfs path, because now we dont know which sysfs node to
> >> refer for a particular input device and hence HAL/Upper-Layer will
> >> need to search in /sys/class/input/... instead of /dev/... directory.
> >
> > [dtor@dtor-d630 ~]$ mkdir my-sysfs-view
> > [dtor@dtor-d630 ~]$ ln -s
> > /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input6
> > my-sysfs-view/input_touchpad
> > [dtor@dtor-d630 ~]$ ls my-sysfs-view/input_touchpad/
> > capabilities/ event6/ modalias name power/
> > subsystem/ uniq
> > device/ id/ mouse1/ phys properties
> > uevent
> > [dtor@dtor-d630 ~]$ ls my-sysfs-view/input_touchpad/
> > capabilities device event6 id modalias mouse1 name phys power
> > properties subsystem uevent uniq
> > [dtor@dtor-d630 ~]$ ls my-sysfs-view/input_touchpad/event6/
> > dev device power subsystem uevent
> >
> > Mmmmkay?
> >
>
> Yes, agreed, we can use udev and soft links to achieve this.
> But i think there is something more to take care.
>
> So far, as per discussion, i understood that if an end user wants to use
> node names instead of numbers, he/she has to do the following things:
No, not the end user, system integrator, which is quite different
beast.
Re(2): (Aniroop Mathur)
Umm.. Sorry, i used wrong word "end user".
I meant to say "system integrator" only.
> 1. Create rules for all input devices in udev rule file i.e. set atleast
> unique id and unique name.
> (end user need to determine unique id too for every input device)
> 2. Create links for all input device nodes using names.
> (in probe function, after input_register_device)
>
> By following above two steps, the file structure will look like:
> devfs - /dev/input_proximity
> sysfs - my-sysfs-view/input_proximity --> sys/class/input/input2
> sysfs - my-sysfs-view/event_proximity --> sys/class/input/event2
>
> But my concern is why to create trouble for end user to perform
> and spend time for two extra steps, when an easy way is possible
> to achieve the same task ?
>
> With this patch, end user only need to set node_name_unique variable
> and right after that, both for devfs and sysfs,same node name is set.
> End user does not need to do or take care of any other extra work,
> like creating entry in udev rules, creating links, etc
>
> Also, with creating links for all input devices and checking udev rules
> before actually creating a device node, will only increase computation
> and time in kernel code.
So do not create links, use something else to track devices. You are
getting uevents, that is all you need.
Re(2): (Aniroop Mathur)
Firstly,
For input device event node, (/input/input1/event1)
we get below 7 uevents only:
Action, Devpath, Subsystem, Major, Minor, Devname, Seqnum
It is impossible to uniquely identify the device using
these 7 uevent variables, because all this is set in
input subsystem and not by driver developer or system integrator.
Devpath, Devname, minor is all set by input subsytem.
So, these uevents are not sufficient to identify the device.
Secondly,
For input device input node (/input/input1),
I know we get more uevents like Name, Phys, etc,
But problem area is not input node because that we can
already do this using dev_set_name(input_dev->dev) or
using init_name variable in driver code.
But evdev (event device) structure is not accessible to driver
so we cannot use the same for this.
Thirdly,
I know if these default uevents are not sufficient,
additionally, we can read sysfs attribute to identify device,
but as i already said, all this(udev rules or links),
will only increase computation time, and my purpose is to save time
and achieving the same task all together.
>
> My purpose is to avoid extra work load and directly create node names
> within input subsystem. Also backward compatibility is there.
> So i think, it is better than the other alternative way.
> Isn't this more easy ? Is there any side-effect or drawback of this patch ?
Yes, there is huge side effect - it is maintenance nightmare, where one
driver can now cause failure for others. What if I have 2 proximity
sensors? 2 accelerometers? How will generic drivers select names that
will satisfy all boards that might use the chips out there? Are you
proposing to put this data in device tree for example? Board files?
IOW no, this is not right solution and the patch will not be accepted.
Re:: (Aniroop Mathur)
Firstly,
Yes, i will put name of all input devices in one place i.e.
in board file or device tree. With this, it is very easy for system
integrator to assign unique names for all input devices.
Secondly,
As already mentioned, this patch is backward compatible.
It is not compulsory to use node_name_unique variable.
So generic drivers can still use the same numbering system.
Also, if there are two accelerometers, system integrator can
easily give "accelerometer1" and "accelerometer2" as names.
Moreover, this same problem is for existing kernel system also.
As you know, using dev_set_name function or init_name variable,
we can set name of input node(not event node). So, if same name
is used, device_add of that input device will fail here also
in existing kernel code.
Thirdly,
Using the existing init_name variable also, we can add naming convention
in input subystem. I can also submit patch using this variable already present
in kernel.
>
> >>
> >> Moreover, as i know, udev is mainly for hot-pluggable devices, but my
> >> problem is for platform devices, which are already present on the
> >> board during boot up. (Like in Embedded devices)
> >
> > No, udev also manages those by requesting to replay all events that
> > happened dyuring boot.
> >
> >>
> >> To avoid confusion and make the problem more clear,
> >> I would like to explain the problem and my suggestion by taking an example:
> >>
> >> Suppose in a mobile device, there are 10 embedded input devices as below:
> >> Proximity --- /dev/input0 --- /sys/class/input/input0 --- /sys/class/input/event0
> >> Magnetometer --- /dev/input1 --- /sys/class/input/input1 --- /sys/class/input/event1
> >> Accelerometer --- /dev/input2 --- /sys/class/input/input2 --- /sys/class/input/event2
> >> Touchscreen --- /dev/input3 --- /sys/class/input/input3 --- /sys/class/input/event3
> >> ... 6 more like this
> >> (All these are created during boot up time)
> >>
> >> Kernel has created all these nodes, so that HAL/UpperLayer can read or
> >> write values from it. HAL/Upper-Layer needs to do main tasks like:
> >> 1. Read raw data - does through /dev/input
> >> 2. Enable device - does through sys/class/input/enable
> >> 3. Set delay - does through sys/class/input/delay
> >> and many more...
> >>
> >> Now, Lets suppose we need to do these tasks for Accelerometer.
> >>
> >> If dev node name is set, HAL can directly read value from it (no
> >> search required) But for enabling the accelerometer device or set the
> >> delay of a hardware chip, there is no direct way, HAL can know which
> >> input node to refer for accelerometer because the input number is
> >> created dynamically as per device probe order, so this input number
> >> can be anything (0,1,2,3...) So HAL will need to search every input
> >> node and read its name attribute and keep on searching until a match
> >> is found between the "attribute name" and "name passed as parameter".
> >> Like for accelerometer, this searching needs to be done for all other
> >> input devices. All of this part is done during booting and this takes
> >> a lot for time from booting perspective.
> >>
> >
> > See the above. You can very easily create your own private 'view' of
> > sysfs, no kernel changes needed.
> >
> >> As I measured, if there are ten devices, it is taking 1 second to do
> >> all this searching. (for all devices) So for 20 devices, i guess, it
> >> could take upto 2 seconds.
> >
> > That seems _very_ high, maybe you need to profile your code a bit. To
> > search though 2 directories with less than a hundred files each should
> > not take 1 second.
> >
>
> In this i am including time to open a directory, close a directory, open file of
> that directory, close file of that directory, searching and computation part.
> Including all these, every time for each input device.
> All this sums upto 1 second.
Why are you doing it one at at time? It appears that this happens in
build at boot up for you...
Re:: (Aniroop Mathur)
Yes, this happenns at boot up of upper-layer.
Just as in kernel, probe of each device is
called by one by one, in upper-layer too, input device initialization
is done one by one in some order and input device number is searched.
So this is done every time.
Moreover, with naming convention, scanning is totally removed.
No need to scan/search even once.
>
> >>
> >> With naming convention, there is no need of search neither for dev
> >> path nor for sysfs path because HAL directly know which node to refer
> >> for which input device and hence this 1 second is reduced to 10ms or
> >> even less, therefore saving 990ms. I believe, this is a very good
> >> time saving. (from device booting perspective)
> >
> > OK, so create your own sysfs view and use it to do direct lookups.
> >
> >>
> >> (Is there any direct way, without scanning all nodes for every input
> >> device ?)
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 2. Improves Readabilty of input and event sysfs node paths because
> >> > names are used instead of numbers.
> >>
> >> I do not see why it is that important. If one wants overview
> >> /proc/bus/input/devices gives nice picture.
> >>
> >> Re: (Aniroop Mathur)
> >> Its correct, we can get an overview from /proc/bus/input/devices.
> >> And therefore using this, we can know input node number for every input device.
> >> But there are many input devices and input numbers are not fixed,
> >> so its quite difficult to memorize input number for all input devices.
> >> Therefore, if a user needs to open some input node from sysfs path,
> >> he needs to check /proc/bus/input/devices before opening because
> >> he does not know the input number. Moreover, this applies for all other
> >> input devices and hence a user need to check this every time.
> >>
> >> It improves readabilty as below
> >>
> >> Before: After patch:
> >> /dev/input0 /dev/input_proximity
> >> /dev/input1 /dev/input_accelerometer
> >> ...many more
> >>
> >> /sys/class/input/input0 /sys/class/input/input_proximity
> >> /sys/class/input/input1 /sys/class/input/input_accelerometer
> >> ...many more
> >>
> >> /sys/class/input/event0 /sys/class/input/event_proximity
> >> /sys/class/input/event1 /sys/class/input/event_accelerometer
> >> ...many more
> >>
> >> So, just by looking, user can directly open or refer any input node.
> >> (no need to refer any other path)
> >
> > User as in end user or your HAL layer?
> >
>
> End user.
Why would end user care? He wants his touchscreen to work, not fiddle
with its settings, And we aleady discussed what system integrator should
do.
Re:: (Aniroop Mathur)
Yeah, i meant system integrator only.
Sorry, not end user (i used wrong term).
System integrator or code developer cares for this.
>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > 3. Removes Input Devices Dependency. If one input device probe fails,
> >> > other input devices still work. Before this patch, if one input
> >> > device probe fails before input_register_device, then input number of
> >> > other input devices changes and due to this permission settings are
> >> > disturbed and hence HAL or upper layer cannot open the required sysfs
> >> > node because permission denied error comes.
> >>
> >> I have only one suggestion here: fix your userspace so that does not
> >> depend on device initialization ordering.
> >>
> >> Re: (Aniroop Mathur)
> >> We cannot fix userspace because these input/event/dev number are
> >> decided/allocated in kernel as per device initialization ordering
> >> during boot up. (userspace has no role in it) So, userspace is not
> >> aware, which exact input number corresponds to which input device so
> >> it ends up searching/scanning every input node untill a match is
> >> found.
> >>
> >> So, there is input device dependency which needs to be removed.
> >
> > Do not use numbers. We emit uevents describing the devices and there a
> > _lot_ of data there that helps identifying device, such as its path,
> > subsystem, name, etc.
> >
>
> Sorry, I am not able to understand this point with respect to removing input
> device dependency. Please elaborate a bit more.
Look at the data that is passed in uevents that are sent either when new
input device is created, or when you request replay of such evenst,
realize that it is enough to identify the device and stop relying on
inputX names to remain static. That's it.
Thanks.
--
Dmitry
Thanks,
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