-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/20/10 20:31, Ping Cheng wrote: > On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 12:22 PM, Rafi Rubin <rafi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> N-Trig based devices and Stantum ones are the most compliant, >>> >>> That's fair since they don't need to track the fingers. >> >> N-Trig doesn't have hardware tracking, Stantum does. > > Sorry for my ignorance. I don't have much time to keep track of what > other devices are doing. Keeping all of my own balls rolling is more > than enough work for me :). > >>>> so Wacom situation needs to be clarified specially considering they are HID >>>> devices (meaning similar to the others devices which respect the >>>> protocol). >>> >>> Well, it is not a pure HID issue. It is more of how we want to >>> support MT on Linux issue. >> >> Side note for Ikbel, its not clear the wacom devices actually stay HID compliant >> when the full protocol is active, and the basic modes are really basic (and not >> very useful). As my understanding of the way HID and usb stuff communicate in >> general, I've been growing less convinced its a protocol issue, more like an >> initialization problem. > > Thank you Rafi for explaining this issue. Wacom tablets have a > relatively long history, longer than the time that digitizers were > supported on Linux. The default HID mouse protocol was introduced due > to the history, which was required by Microsoft.... We can not change > history, can we :)? > > Wacom kept their devices consistent protocol-wise over the years. > That's why even the modern digitizers default to the basic HID > protocol. > >> Still I'm not quite sure. > > I think you've got the point. > >>>> This impact very much the decision of a Linux user wanting to buy wacom mt device. >>> >>> I think end users have already got the Linux support from Wacom. Can >>> you share the specific issues that are preventing Linux end users from >>> buying a Wacom MT devices? If I didn't misunderstand your point here, >>> you are talking about Linux users, not Linux developers/hackers, >>> right? >> >> I think normal users wanting to use linux for MT are generally frustrated and >> confused at the moment. > > Why do the end users get frustrated and confused? Can you share some > examples from an end user's (not developer's) perspective with me? Sorry, I've been too focused on the n-trig users. They have been frustrated, and I've seen from the forums that some have been playing with customized versions of both the kernel and wacom x driver to get your two finger gestures. I'm also projecting my own frustrations, seeing the X mt interface still not quite set, and very little in the way of applications that use mt at all. We're still quite a ways away from seeing the full potential of a more hands on desktop. >> Certainly the protocol between the wacom kernel driver >> and the wacom user space driver is way below the level that most are following. > > By "most", do you mean most MT device drivers, or most end users, or > most developers? I am eager to bring the Wacom driver to the specific > level. End users, they don't tend to care about the internal protocols as long as their programs do what they want. >> As developers, I think we have a strong interest in seeing wacom migrate to a >> shared protocol. But our interests are in pushing the functionality beyond >> what's currently available, and we just want to see everyone get equal access to >> features as we create them. I think to convince Ping (if he weren't already), >> and the others working on the Wacom code, we'd have to show off some of what >> he's going to gain by switching, and at the moment, as a community, I don't >> think we are quite ready, maybe soon. > > I do see the positive sign here. And, BTW, it is a she that you are > talking to :). Don't worry, you are still taking to the same person. > So, it really doesn't matter to me. But, I don't want you to get the > fact from someone else and to be "puzzled" :). Um, what can I say, the hazards of interacting with just text in a language curiously lacking in proper androgynous pronouns. Please forgive my ignorance particularly culturally. >> So, Ping, consider that I and others will have cool things to show you in the >> near future, and if you start migrating you will get some cool new functionality >> when the two waves of progress collide. Also, I think Henrik's B protocol has >> some cool advantages which you've demonstrated considerable interest in. So I >> gather you do intend to switch when its convenient? > > Why not? Do you think I am that stupid :)? To be honest, I've been > waiting for the day for a while. Not at all, I'm just incompetent at subtle nudging. >>>> Ping can you clarifie the situation of wacom based devices ? >>> >>> What else do you need me to clarify? I am all ears and I am ready to >>> clarify any thing that puzzles you. >> >> Will Wacom be moving to more than 2 finger support in the near future? Do you >> already have some products on the market? > > No, we do not have 2+ finger devices on the market and I can not tell > what the future would be. We'll see what it is when time comes. Any > more questions :)? Nope, I think I've put my foot in it enough for the evening :-) Rafi -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkwevgQACgkQwuRiAT9o60+k9QCdEPogsLgVUDc7K/vqWNvjd/yS IYwAoPyS0hOuqS51Dlft011EInnrx7+J =mPjC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-input" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
