On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:58:34PM +0100, James Bottomley wrote: > On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 15:20 +0800, Aaron Lu wrote: > > On 10/08/2012 06:21 PM, James Bottomley wrote: > > > On Mon, 2012-10-08 at 17:27 +0800, Aaron Lu wrote: > > >> On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 03:43:27PM -0400, Alan Stern wrote: > > >>> On Sun, 30 Sep 2012, Jeff Garzik wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> The simple fact of "only ZPODD devices out there are ATA" is not the > > >>>> decision-maker for where the code should live. It is more a question > > >>>> where ZPODD belongs in the device/command set model currently employed. > > >>> > > >>> I don't really accept this argument. It's a little like saying: The > > >>> tty layer uses ioctl commands to control RS232 line settings; therefore > > >>> RS232 settings should be handled in the VFS layer as part of the ioctl > > >>> core. > > >>> > > >>> Regardless, according to Aaron the ZP power-off stuff is currently > > >>> implemented only in ACPI, tied more closely to the ATA layer than the > > >>> SCSI layer (though not part of either). It is not part of the SCSI > > >>> spec in any form. > > >> > > >> The mechanism of SATA ODD zero power model is specified in Mount Fuji > > >> spec v8 section 15 describing what the ODD needs support, how to sense > > >> if the ODD is ready to be powered off and on power up what needs to be > > >> done, etc. And the actual power off and wakeup is implemented in ACPI > > >> and SATA. > > >> > > >>> Now it's true that determining whether a device is > > >>> in the right state for power to be removed involves sending a TEST UNIT > > >>> READY command, which is of course a SCSI command. This seems to be > > >>> incidental to the overall scheme, however. > > >> > > >> I need to add that, there are 2 schemes to sense if the ODD is ready to > > >> be powered off: > > >> 1 the one I used here, by checking if the door is closed and no media > > >> inside with test_unit_ready; > > >> 2 some ZP capable ODDs can report zero power ready(ZPReady) event to > > >> host when queried, eliminating the need of host checking the conditions. > > > > > > The way I read the standard is that ZP ODD is a hack to try and get to > > > > Thanks for your time. > > > > > off and ZPready is the same hack but integrated into the standardised > > > power management states (and hence available to normal power saving). > > > The standard even implies ZP ODD is a less desirable hack by > > > recommending the use of ZPready. > > > > There are ZPODDs not supporting ZPready and I want to support them so > > the sense scheme 1 is used. > > Right, but what I'm saying is that ZPODD looks like a hack until ZPready > is fairly universally implemented. ZPready makes far more sense since > it's integrated into the usual SCSI power management, so ZPODD should > have a limited shelf life. I hope so :-) > > > > > > > The ZPready method, being an extension of the usual SCSI power > > > management model, is pretty much what we support today (especially as > > > the whole thing is timer driven from values in the mode page and happens > > > pretty much invisibly to us). > > > > > > Since the object is to make this as painless as possible, why don't we > > > just implement ZPODD the way the spec recommends? i.e. emulate the > > > timers at an incredibly low level and intercept and emulate the non-disk > > > commands listed in table 321. I bet, in Linux, since we moved basically > > > to GET_EVENT_STATUS_NOTIFICATION, that's the only one that actually > > > needs an emulation. > > > > > > The state model seems to work if you snoop the polled media event, so > > > you wait for no media, then set your internal timer, stop it if we get a > > > media change and power off the device after interval expiry. Thereafter > > > you emulate media event with no change keeping the device powered off. > > > If a disc gets inserted or the eject button is pressed, you see that via > > > the SATA PHY events (so wake the drive) and if the Upper Layer sends an > > > unexpected command, you also power on the drive. > > > > > > That way all of this should be nicely containable within SATA/ACPI. > > > > Thanks for the suggestion, it is really something that I've never > > thought of :-) > > > > But I was hoping to use the runtime pm framework to support ZPODD. > > Well, the runtime pm framework doesn't support the current SCSI power > management states within the drive, that's why it makes sense to treat > what is essentially a hack to them in the same manner. OK, I agree, and it amused me a little bit :-) And here are some thoughts on runtime pm regarding SCSI power state in ODD's case. The Mount Fuji spec has words like this in section 16.1.1: When no media is mounted, the logical unit should enter Standby state. So we do not need to do anything for no media case if Standby is acceptable. And when there is media inside, the ODD's power state will either be controlled by its internal timer or by host's command. So for runtime pm code to participate, the only place to do some work is when there is media inside and we decide when the ODD is not in use and place it into Standby and when the ODD is in use, we place it into Active. But in this case, it seems better we let the ODD handle this power state transition by itself by programming its internal timer. So there doesn't seem to be anything related to SCSI power state that runtime pm code needs to do for media inside case either. The runtime pm support for sr may still be desired in that we can give the pm core a hint that this device is now not in use and its ancestor devices can be runtime suspended now(as already suggested by some people several times), but no need to touch the SCSI power state of the device. Following this thought, I can see why you people are suggesting me to implement ZPODD in SATA. I think we can totally forget setting power state in sr's runtime code. The runtime pm code for sr should just serve as a hint to pm core, and the actual power state should be either handled by the device itself(for the standard power state case using internal time) or by the underlying layer(for the ZP case). Thanks, Aaron > > > With your suggestion, I don't know how to do this. Maybe I can set the > > scsi device representing the ODD to runtime suspended once I decided to > > power it off and resume it when I power it up. But there is a problem, > > that I'm setting a scsi device's runtime status in ATA layer, this > > doesn't feel right. And someday, someone may want to add runtime pm > > support for sr and the runtime status of the scsi device will be messed. > > No, if we ever actually supported the standard power management states, > you'd simply be intercepting the SCSI commands that forced the state > transitions (START_STOP_UNIT) and act when yours was forced. > > > The reason I want to use runtime PM is, when the scsi device is runtime > > suspended, its ancestor devices will have a chance to enter runtime > > suspend state, e.g. the sata controller. > > But this, I think, is why it looks odd. You're implementing a lower > state than standard SCSI power model which the current runtime pm > doesn't support anyway. > > There is, of course, the question of whether we *should* force the SCSI > transitions in runtime pm ... but that's orthogonal to this discussion. > > James > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
