On Fri, 2013-11-15 at 15:54 +0400, Stanislav Kinsbursky wrote: > 15.11.2013 15:03, Eric W. Biederman пишет: > > Stanislav Kinsbursky <skinsbursky@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: > > > > > 12.11.2013 17:30, Jeff Layton пишет: > > > > On Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:02:36 +0400 > > > > Stanislav Kinsbursky <skinsbursky@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > 12.11.2013 15:12, Jeff Layton пишет: > > > > > > On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:47:03 -0800 > > > > > > Greg KH <gregkh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 07:18:25AM -0500, Jeff Layton > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > We have a bit of a problem wrt to upcalls that use > > > > > > > > call_usermodehelper > > > > > > > > with containers and I'd like to bring this to some sort > > > > > > > > of resolution... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A particularly problematic case (though there are > > > > > > > > others) is the > > > > > > > > nfsdcltrack upcall. It basically uses > > > > > > > > call_usermodehelper to run a > > > > > > > > program in userland to track some information on stable > > > > > > > > storage for > > > > > > > > nfsd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought the discussion at the kernel summit about this > > > > > > > issue was: > > > > > > > - don't do this. > > > > > > > - don't do it. > > > > > > > - if you really need to do this, fix nfsd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I couldn't make the kernel summit so I missed that > > > > > > discussion. I > > > > > > guess LWN didn't cover it? > > > > > > > > > > > > In any case, I guess then that we'll either have to come up > > > > > > with some > > > > > > way to fix nfsd here, or simply ensure that nfsd can never > > > > > > be started > > > > > > unless root in the container has a full set of a full set of > > > > > > capabilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > One sort of Rube Goldberg possibility to fix nfsd is: > > > > > > > > > > > > - when we start nfsd in a container, fork off an extra > > > > > > kernel thread > > > > > > that just sits idle. That thread would need to be a > > > > > > descendant of the > > > > > > userland process that started nfsd, so we'd need to > > > > > > create it with > > > > > > kernel_thread(). > > > > > > > > > > > > - Have the kernel just start up the UMH program in the > > > > > > init_ns mount > > > > > > namespace as it currently does, but also pass the pid > > > > > > of the idle > > > > > > kernel thread to the UMH upcall. > > > > > > > > > > > > - The program will then use /proc/<pid>/root and > > > > > > /proc/<pid>/ns/* to set > > > > > > itself up for doing things properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that with this mechanism we can't actually run a > > > > > > different binary > > > > > > per container, but that's probably fine for most purposes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm... Why we can't? We can go a bit further with userspace > > > > > idea. > > > > > > > > > > We use UMH some very limited number of user programs. For 2, > > > > > actually: > > > > > 1) /sbin/nfs_cache_getent > > > > > 2) /sbin/nfsdcltrack > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, the kernel uses them for a lot more than that. Pretty much > > > > all of > > > > the keys API upcalls use it. See all of the callers of > > > > call_usermodehelper. All of them are running user binaries out > > > > of the > > > > kernel, and almost all of them are certainly broken wrt > > > > containers. > > > > > > > > > If we convert them into proxies, which use /proc/<pid>/root > > > > > and /proc/<pid>/ns/*, this will allow us to lookup the right > > > > > binary. > > > > > The only limitation here is presence of this "proxy" binaries > > > > > on "host". > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suppose I spawn my own container as a user, using all of this > > > > spiffy > > > > new user namespace stuff. Then I make the kernel use > > > > call_usermodehelper to call the upcall in the init_ns, and then > > > > trick > > > > it into running my new "escape_from_namespace" program with > > > > "real" root > > > > privileges. > > > > > > > > I don't think we can reasonably assume that having the kernel > > > > exec an > > > > arbitrary binary inside of a container is safe. Doing so inside > > > > of the > > > > init_ns is marginally more safe, but only marginally so... > > > > > > > > > And we don't need any significant changes in kernel. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, Jeff, could you remind me, please, why exactly we need to > > > > > use UMH to run the binary? > > > > > What are this capabilities, which force us to do so? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing _forces_ us to do so, but upcalls are very difficult to > > > > handle, > > > > and UMH has a lot of advantages over a long-running daemon > > > > launched by > > > > userland. > > > > > > > > Originally, I created the nfsdcltrack upcall as a running daemon > > > > called > > > > nfsdcld, and the kernel used rpc_pipefs to communicate with it. > > > > > > > > Everyone hated it because no one likes to have to run daemons > > > > for > > > > infrequently used upcalls. It's a pain for users to ensure that > > > > it's > > > > running and it's a pain to handle when it isn't. So, I was > > > > encouraged > > > > to turn that instead into a UMH upcall. > > > > > > > > But leaving that aside, this problem is a lot larger than just > > > > nfsd. We > > > > have a *lot* of UMH upcalls in the kernel, so this problem is > > > > more > > > > general than just "fixing" nfsd's. > > > > > > > > > > Ok. So we are talking about generic approach to UMH support in a > > > container (and/or namespace). > > > > > > Actually, as far as I can see, there are more that one aspect, > > > which is not supported. > > > One one them is executing of the right binary. Another one is > > > capabilities (and maybe there are more, like user namespaces), but > > > I > > > don't really care about them for now. > > > Executing the right binary, actually, is not about namespaces at > > > all. This is about lookup implementation in VFS > > > (do_execve_common). > > > > > > > > > Would be great to unshare FS for forked UHM kthread and swap it to > > > desired root. This will solve the problem with proper lookup. > > > However, > > > as far as I understand, this approach is not welcome by the > > > community. > > > > I don't understand that one. Having a preforked thread with the > > proper > > environment that can act like kthreadd in terms of spawning user > > mode > > helpers works and is simple. The only downside I can see is that > > there > > is extra overhead. > > > > What do you mean by "simple" here? Simple to implement? > We already have a preforked thread, called "UMH", used exactly for > this purpose. Is there? Can you explain how the pre-forking happens please? AFAICS a workqueue is used to run UMH helpers, I can't see any pre -forking going on there and it doesn't appear to be possible to do either. > And, if I'm not mistaken, we are trying to discuss, how to adapt > existent infrastructure for namespaces, don't we? > > > Beyond that though for the user mode helpers spawned to populate > > security keys it is not clear which context they should be run in, > > even if we do have kernel threads. > > > > Regardless of the context itself, we need a way to pass it to kernel > thread and to put kernel thread in this context. Or I'm missing > something? > > > > This problem, probably, can be solved by constructing full binary > > > path > > > (i.e. not in a container, but in kernel thread root context) in > > > UMH > > > "init" callack. However, this will help only is the dentry is > > > accessible from "init" root. Which is usually no true in case on > > > mount > > > namespaces, if I understand them right. > > > > You are correct it can not be assumed that what is visible in one > > mount > > namespace is visible in another. And of course in addition to > > picking > > the correct binary to run you have to set up a proper environment > > for > > that binary to run in. It may be that it's configuration file is > > only > > avaiable at the expected location in the proper mount namespace, > > even > > if the binary is available in all of the mount namespaces. > > > > Yes, you are right. So, this solution can help only in case of very > specific and simple "environment-less" programs. > So, I believe, that we should modify UMH itself to support our needs. > But I don't see, how to make the idea more pleasant for the community. > IOW, when I was talking about UMH in NFS implementation on Ksummit, > Linus's answer was something like "fix NFS". > And I can't object it, actually, because for now NFS is the only > corner case. > > Jeff said, that there are a bunch of UMH calls in kernel, but this is > not solid enough to prove UHM changes, since nobody is trying to use > them in containers. > > So, I doubt, that we can change UMH generically without additional use > -cases for 'containerized" UMH. > > > Eric > > > > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-fsdevel" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
