On Sat 19-05-12 11:40:24, Dave Chinner wrote: > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 03:32:50PM +0200, Jan Kara wrote: > > On Fri 18-05-12 20:12:10, Dave Chinner wrote: > > > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 01:28:29AM +0200, Jan Kara wrote: > > > > On Thu 17-05-12 17:43:08, Dave Chinner wrote: > > > > > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 03:04:45PM +0200, Jan Kara wrote: > > > > > > On Wed 16-05-12 12:14:23, Dave Chinner wrote: > > > > > IIRC, it's a rare case (that I consider insane, BTW): read from a > > > > > file with into a buffer that is a mmap()d region of the same file > > > > > that has not been faulted in yet..... > > > > With punch hole, the race is less insane - just punching hole in the area > > > > which is accessed via mmap could race in a bad way AFAICS. > > > > > > Seems the simple answer to me is to prevent page faults while hole > > > punching, then.... > > Yes, that's what I was suggesting in the beginning :) And I was asking > > whether people are OK with another lock in the page fault path (in > > particular in ->page_mkwrite) > > Right. I probably should have been clearer in what I said. We got > back here from considering another IO level lock and all the > complexity it adds to just solve the hole punch problem.... > > > or whether someone has a better idea (e.g. > > taking mmap_sem in the hole punching path seems possible but I'm not sure > > whether that would be considered acceptable abuse). > > That's for the VM guys to answer, but it seems wrong to me to have > to treat hole punching differently to truncation.... > > The thing is, mmap IO is completely unlocked from an IO perspective, > and that means we cannot guarantee exclusion from IO without using > the IO exclusion lock. That's the simplest way we can make mmap > serialise sanely against direct IO and hole punching. Hole punching > is inherently a filesystem operation (just like truncation), and > mmap operations must stall while it is in progress. It's just that > we have the problem that we allow the mmap_sem to be taken inside > the IO exclusion locks... > > So let's step back a moment and have a look at how we've got here. > The problem is that we've optimised ourselves into a corner with the > way we handle page cache truncation - we don't need mmap > serialisation because of the combination of i_size and page locks > mean we can detect truncated pages safely at page fault time. With > hole punching, we don't have that i_size safety blanket, and so we > need some other serialisation mechanism to safely detect whether a > page is valid or not at any given point in time. > > Because it needs to serialise against IO operations, we need a > sleeping lock of some kind, and it can't be the existing IO lock. > And now we are looking at needing a new lock for hole punching, I'm > really wondering if the i_size/page lock truncation optimisation > should even continue to exist. i.e. replace it with a single > mechanism that works for both hole punching, truncation and other > functions that require exclusive access or exclusion against > modifications to the mapping tree. > > But this is only one of the problems in this area.The way I see it > is that we have many kludges in the area of page invalidation w.r.t. > different types of IO, the page cache and mmap, especially when we > take into account direct IO. What we are seeing here is we need > some level of _mapping tree exclusion_ between: > > 1. mmap vs hole punch (broken) > 2. mmap vs truncate (i_size/page lock) > 3. mmap vs direct IO (non-existent) > 4. mmap vs buffered IO (page lock) > 5. writeback vs truncate (i_size/page lock) > 6. writeback vs hole punch (page lock, possibly broken) > 7. direct IO vs buffered IO (racy - flush cache before/after DIO) Yes, this is a nice summary of the most interesting cases. For completeness, here are the remaining cases: 8. mmap vs writeback (page lock) 9. writeback vs direct IO (as direct IO vs buffered IO) 10. writeback vs buffered IO (page lock) 11. direct IO vs truncate (dio_wait) 12. direct IO vs hole punch (dio_wait) 13. buffered IO vs truncate (i_mutex for writes, i_size/page lock for reads) 14. buffered IO vs hole punch (fs dependent, broken for ext4) 15. truncate vs hole punch (fs dependent) 16. mmap vs mmap (page lock) 17. writeback vs writeback (page lock) 18. direct IO vs direct IO (i_mutex or fs dependent) 19. buffered IO vs buffered IO (i_mutex for writes, page lock for reads) 20. truncate vs truncate (i_mutex) 21. punch hole vs punch hole (fs dependent) > #1, #2, #5 and #6 could be solved by a rw-lock for the operations - > read for mmap/writeback, exclusive for hole-punch and truncation. > That, however, doesn't work for #3 and #4 as the exclusion is > inverted - direct/buffered IO would require a shared mode lock and > mmap requires the exclusive lock. Similarly, #7 requires a shared > lock for direct IO, and a shared lock for buffered IO, but exclusion > between the two for overlapping ranges. But no one locking primitive > that currently exists can give us this set of semantics.... > > Right now we are talking about hacking in some solution to #1, while > ignoring the wider range of related but ignored/papered over > problems we also have. I don't have a magic bullet that solves all > of these problems, but I think it is worth recognising and > considering that this problem is much larger than just hole punching > and that these problems have been there for a *long time*. > > To me the issue at hand is that we have no method of serialising > multi-page operations on the mapping tree between the filesystem and > the VM, and that seems to be the fundamental problem we face in this > whole area of mmap/buffered/direct IO/truncate/holepunch coherency. > Hence it might be better to try to work out how to fix this entire > class of problems rather than just adding a complex kuldge that just > papers over the current "hot" symptom.... Yes, looking at the above table, the amount of different synchronization mechanisms is really striking. So probably we should look at some possibility of unifying at least some cases. Honza -- Jan Kara <jack@xxxxxxx> SUSE Labs, CR -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-fsdevel" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
