On 07/01/2009 02:31 PM, Michael Rubin wrote:
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Chris Worley<worleys@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Shaozhi Ye<yeshao@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
This looks like a very valuable project. I do lack understanding of
how certain problems that very much need to be tested will be tested.
From your pdf:
"Data loss: The client thinks the server has A while the server
does not."
I've been wondering how you test to assure that data committed to the
disk is really committed?
What we are trying to capture is what the users perceives and can
expect in our environment. This is not an attempt to know the moment
the OS can guarantee the data is stored persistently. I am not sure if
that's feasible to do with write caching drives today.
This experiment's goal as of now is not to know the exact moment in
time "when the data is committed". It has two goals. The first to
assure ourselves there is no strange corner case making ext4 behave
worse or unexpectedly compared to ext2 in the rare event of a power
failure. And to deliver expectations to our users on the
recoverability of data after the event.
The key is not to ack the clients request until you have done the best
effort in moving the data to persistent storage locally.
Today, I think that the best practice would be to either disable the
write cache on the drive or have properly configured write barrier
support and use an fsync() on any file before sending the ack back over
the wire to the client. Note that disabling the write cache is required
if you use some MD/DM constructs that might not honor barrier requests.
Doing this consistently has been shown to significantly reduce the data
loss due to power failure.
For now we are employing a client server model for network exported
sharing in this test. In that context the App doesn't have a lot of
methods to know when the data is committed. I know of O_DIRECT, fsync,
etc. Given these current day interfaces what can the network client
apps expect?
Isn't this really just proper design of the server component?
After we have results we will try to figure out if we need to develop
new interfaces or methods to improve the situation and hopefully start
sending patches.
I just don't see a method to test this, but it is so critically important.
I agree.
mrubin
One way to test this with reasonable, commodity hardware would be
something like the following:
(1) Get an automated power kill setup to control your server
(2) Configure the server with your regular storage stack and one local,
non-write cache enabled device (could be a normal S-ATA drive with write
cache disabled)
(3) On receipt of each client request, record with O_DIRECT writes to
the non-caching device the receipt of the request and the sending of the
ack back to the client. Getting a really low latency device for the
recording skews the accuracy of this technique much less of course :-)
(4) On the client, record locally its requests and received acks.
(5) At random times, drop power to the server.
Verification would be to replay the client log of received acks &
validate that the server (after recovery) still has the data that it
acked over the network.
Wouldn't this suffice to raise the bar to a large degree?
Thanks!
Ric
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-fsdevel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
