On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 03:52:37PM -0400, Chris Metcalf wrote: > On 05/09/2015 03:19 AM, Andy Lutomirski wrote: > >Naming aside, I don't think this should be a per-task flag at all. We > >already have way too much overhead per syscall in nohz mode, and it > >would be nice to get the per-syscall overhead as low as possible. We > >should strive, for all tasks, to keep syscall overhead down*and* > >avoid as many interrupts as possible. > > > >That being said, I do see a legitimate use for a way to tell the > >kernel "I'm going to run in userspace for a long time; stay away". > >But shouldn't that be a single operation, not an ongoing flag? IOW, I > >think that we should have a new syscall quiesce() or something rather > >than a prctl. > > Yes, if all you are concerned about is quiescing the tick, we could > probably do it as a new syscall. > > I do note that you'd want to try to actually do the quiesce as late as > possible - in particular, if you just did it in the usual syscall, you > might miss out on a timer that is set by softirq, or even something > that happened when you called schedule() on the syscall exit path. > Doing it as late as we are doing helps to ensure that that doesn't > happen. We could still arrange for this semantics by having a new > quiesce() syscall set a temporary task bit that was cleared on > return to userspace, but as you pointed out in a different email, > that gets tricky if you end up doing multiple user_exit() calls on > your way back to userspace. > > More to the point, I think it's actually important to know when an > application believes it's in userspace-only mode as an actual state > bit, rather than just during its transitional moment. If an > application calls the kernel at an unexpected time (third-party code > is the usual culprit for our customers, whether it's syscalls, page > faults, or other things) we would prefer to have the "quiesce" > semantics stay in force and cause the third-party code to be > visibly very slow, rather than cause a totally unexpected and > hard-to-diagnose interrupt show up later as we are still going > around the loop that we thought was safely userspace-only. > > And, for debugging the kernel, it's crazy helpful to have that state > bit in place: see patch 6/6 in the series for how we can diagnose > things like "a different core just queued an IPI that will hit a > dataplane core unexpectedly". Having that state bit makes this sort > of thing a trivial check in the kernel and relatively easy to debug. I agree with this! It is currently a bit painful to debug problems that might result in multiple tasks runnable on a given CPU. If you suspect a problem, you enable tracing and re-run. Not paricularly friendly for chasing down intermittent problems, so some sort of improvement would be a very good thing. Thanx, Paul > Finally, I proposed a "strict" mode in patch 5/6 where we kill the > process if it voluntarily enters the kernel by mistake after saying it > wasn't going to any more. To do this requires a state bit, so > carrying another state bit for "quiesce on user entry" seems pretty > reasonable. > > -- > Chris Metcalf, EZChip Semiconductor > http://www.ezchip.com > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-doc" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
