On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 04:46:41PM +0900, Damien Le Moal wrote: > On 2/23/22 14:57, Gao Xiang wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 02:59:48PM -0500, Gabriel Krisman Bertazi wrote: > >> I'd like to discuss an interface to implement user space block devices, > >> while avoiding local network NBD solutions. There has been reiterated > >> interest in the topic, both from researchers [1] and from the community, > >> including a proposed session in LSFMM2018 [2] (though I don't think it > >> happened). > >> > >> I've been working on top of the Google iblock implementation to find > >> something upstreamable and would like to present my design and gather > >> feedback on some points, in particular zero-copy and overall user space > >> interface. > >> > >> The design I'm pending towards uses special fds opened by the driver to > >> transfer data to/from the block driver, preferably through direct > >> splicing as much as possible, to keep data only in kernel space. This > >> is because, in my use case, the driver usually only manipulates > >> metadata, while data is forwarded directly through the network, or > >> similar. It would be neat if we can leverage the existing > >> splice/copy_file_range syscalls such that we don't ever need to bring > >> disk data to user space, if we can avoid it. I've also experimented > >> with regular pipes, But I found no way around keeping a lot of pipes > >> opened, one for each possible command 'slot'. > >> > >> [1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3456727.3463768 > >> [2] https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-fsdevel/msg120674.html > > > > I'm interested in this general topic too. One of our use cases is > > that we need to process network data in some degree since many > > protocols are application layer protocols so it seems more reasonable > > to process such protocols in userspace. And another difference is that > > we may have thousands of devices in a machine since we'd better to run > > containers as many as possible so the block device solution seems > > suboptimal to us. Yet I'm still interested in this topic to get more > > ideas. > > > > Btw, As for general userspace block device solutions, IMHO, there could > > be some deadlock issues out of direct reclaim, writeback, and userspace > > implementation due to writeback user requests can be tripped back to > > the kernel side (even the dependency crosses threads). I think they are > > somewhat hard to fix with user block device solutions. For example, > > https://lore.kernel.org/r/CAM1OiDPxh0B1sXkyGCSTEpdgDd196-ftzLE-ocnM8Jd2F9w7AA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > This is already fixed with prctl() support. See: > > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-fsdevel/20191112001900.9206-1-mchristi@xxxxxxxxxx/ As I mentioned above, IMHO, we could add some per-task state to avoid the majority of such deadlock cases (also what I mentioned above), but there may still some potential dependency could happen between threads, such as using another kernel workqueue and waiting on it (in principle at least) since userspace program can call any syscall in principle ( which doesn't like in-kernel drivers). So I think it can cause some risk due to generic userspace block device restriction, please kindly correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, Gao Xiang > > > -- > Damien Le Moal > Western Digital Research
