On 05/15/2010 09:56 PM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On 05/15/2010 01:33 PM, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
I recommend joining the CCRMA mailing list, as there are many more
people there to help you. e.g. I can't help you much pulseaudio since
I always remove it from my systems,
Dude!!!! Seriously? That is just so wrong in so many ways. It's one thing
for a user to say this for whatever reason but you are claiming to represent
Fedora who also fund a substantial amount of Pulse Audio's Development. So
much for product loyalty.
It's really no wonder people get confused about PA and JACK when even people
with the most opportunity to make the system work together are bypassing the
inherent integration issues by completely side stepping the problem.
And what makes you think I (we) never tried? Fedora is going to make
its 6th release with pulseaudio next week and pulseaudio is still
fundamentally buggy. I really don't want to talk about the hours I
spent on pulseaudio. Did you ever file a bug to pulseaudio? Or did you
try to reason with its developer? I did. Yes, I was stupid. But when
pulseaudio started crashing my wife's computer, and destroying her
hdd, I figured that it was time to react.
Me and many people in Fedora who are dealing with audio are willing to
drop pulseaudio, at least make it non-default. It is a waste of time
and resources to enforce some mobile device company's buggy toy on
Linux desktop users. Unfortunately for the time being, the steering
committee of Fedora does not contain enough people with audio
knowledge to make such a decision.
I am working at Fedora but that does not mean that I support
everything we do. It is a large community and like in all large
communities, we have disagreements. After all these years of
education, I can't promote stupidity. Sorry.
I appreciate that you have personally had a lot of trouble with Pulse
Audio and that integrating it has caused a lot of pain. I have also
experienced the pain and I have also read innumerable reports from other
users. I have definitely attempted to work with the PA team on providing
feedback and have reported my results to this list in excruciating detail.
What makes me laugh is that apart from your personal quest to rid the
world of Pulse Audio on the desktop you are representing Fedora. In my
communications with Lennart he has been very positive in his support of
Fedora's integration efforts for PA and in the past has been quite
dismissive of the efforts made by people on the Ubuntu team. Now what we
have is the Ubuntu team actively pushing the full integration of PA with
Jack ootb and here is one of the core Fedora crew saying that they would
prefer not to ever have to deal with PA ever again and no one else
should have to either.
It makes me wonder if outside forces are not influencing things to
increase confusion and instability for desktop users. They used to have
the ubuntu team in their pockets and now it appears they have managed to
get a spanner in the works at Fedora. Or are you just a lone wolf
defending the world against injustice and attempting to minimise the
hassles you have experienced caused by the headaches of working with PA?
Of course the same could be said of Lennart's often caustic
communication methods being detrimental to progress and it also appears
that you two have some personal issues to sort out which is not helping
anything.
BTW, I completely and wholeheartedly *disagree* with you that PA is a
toy. It is used on Palm, Nokia, and I just found out about Android to
deliver the audio system. In addition to mobile fast becoming the status
quo, having a fully integrated desktop and mobile experience is a
worthwhile pursuit. Maybe you just need a break from working on audio
desktop integration for a while. If you want to farm that out then
contact me privately as I have some spare time these days I could put
into it especially if the funding is available.
Fully integrating the professional a/v stack on Fedora ootb is something
that could use a little attention. I haven't upgraded to f13 yet but f12
is still having some issues in terms of getting various apps to work
together in a fluid system.
I have lots more to add as I have been working with Fedora since f7
which is almost 5 years now specifically because it had the official
endorsement of Lennart for PA integration so I wanted to find out what
all the fuss was about and was sick of hearing this debate when no one
would provide any specific evidence of PA's shortcomings other than "it
didn't work for me so I uninstalled it".
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
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