On Sun, 2006-03-12 at 12:40 +0100, Cesare Marilungo wrote:
> I'm still thinking about what happened yesterday.
>
> I just want to clarify two things and then I'll stop these annoying posts.
>
> First. I *really* agree with you Ron (and Paul, and Jay) about the
> importance of freedom of speech.
> And it's obvious that I must respect this freedom even when somebody
> says something that I disagree with.
>
> I'm still undecided if is right or wrong to ban offensive language by
> somebody who is trying to build a community of likeminded people.
>
> If you invite me at your home, and I start insulting you and your family
> with racist and sexist words I don't thing you would invite me again. In
> the same way anybody can start his/her own web community and apply the
> rules he/she want.
>
I agree. Those who run Jamendo have every right to censor what is
on their site. We just don't think that censorship is correct. Because
of that we don't think that a site for audio should be censored in any
way.
> In one of my previous messages I even said that I don't see the need of
> such community, and that having your own web space gives you more
> freedom anyway.
>
> Probably, I misunderstood your complaints. I thought that you were
> saying that you feel being limited by joining a website that bans
> offensive languange and dangerous statements made by ignorant people
> (and to me somebody who is racist in 2006 is way more ignorant than the
> jamendo crew). If this is true, I still respect you because I see that
> you're defending something I believe in too.
>
That's it exactly - I can't stand the message that skinheads put out
but I'll defend to the death their right to say it. I also don't like a
lot of the PETA garbage but the same holds true there.
> Just consider that racism is growing worldwide. And that this is a
> *real* danger for any kind of freedom.
>
> What I'm trying to say is that I believe that their (the jamendo crew)
> concerns about this could be sincere and positive, even if there's a
> contraddiction with the wider idea of freedom we both have.
>
I'm sure they're sincere. Those who don't want Greenpeace putting
out their message are also sincere. The fine line comes when skinheads,
PETA, or Greenpeace incite someone else to do something that violates
another's rights. As you can see from some of the illegal acts that are
committed by members of all three groups it's very difficult to prove
incitement. The perpetrators usually get nailed but those whose
messages they've listened to usually don't. I'm actually very concerned
at this point by things that are happening in both the US and Europe in
regard to free speech. Web sites being shut down because they are pro
nazi, pro jihad, pro anything that "the people" don't think is
politically correct. We should be protecting these idiots rights to say
stupid things. Why? Because someday it could be something that you or
I think is important to say that others think is politically incorrect.
That's the slippery slope that Ron was railing against.
> Second. If I could turn back time (as Cher would have said) I wouldn't
> have used that phrase about loosing my calm. It has been just my
> impulsiveness and my not so good (ok bad) english writing skills. I'm
> trying to learn this language by myself to interact with more likeminded
> people than those I may find here in Italy. To be part of the hacker
> community.
>
Your English is much better than my Italian ;-) I would love to
learn Italian - it's such a beautiful language (and Italy is a beautiful
country).
> But I've felt offended by your words as well. And *this* is what really
> triggered my impulsiveness. You offended me as an inhabitant of an
> european country. We can discuss about if there's really freedom of
> speech in the United States (vs France) for the rest of our life but I
> would have liked to keep these aspects away from a list like this.
>
There are so many things about Europe that we in the US should
emulate. The first time I went to Italy back in the mid 90's I was
struck by the fact that (in some locations) you could see what we would
call R or X rated content on TV but you couldn't find any violent
programs. I believe someone told me at the time that the A Team (an old
US TV show) was not allowed on TV there because it was too violent. I
think the overall opinion seems to be "sex is OK, violence is bad". Our
puritanical history here seems to leave us with the opposite. I've
walked around the dark streets of Naples, Barcelona, and Marseille at 3
in the morning and not had any trouble (I'm not talking about the main
streets either). I'd wouldn't last five minutes in many parts of New
Orleans at 3 in the morning.
> Otherwise, you should call it 'Linux Audio American Users' or 'Linux
> Audio Land of The Freedom Users'. In this case I would maybe kiss your
> ass and leave.
>
Don't worry about it - Ron always talks like that. He's really a
pretty nice guy he just has a few buttons that are easy to push ;-)
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and
this we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
