apt-get upgrade culture no, really. i like to decry the loss of working class intellectualism; in my admittedly speculative history of the world america lost it in the thirties. best antidote i've seen so far is the emergence of freely available media production tools, as are refined and developed in forums such as this one. certainly america has a culture; it's not one i'm particularly fond of, but it's also so diversified that i must claim ownership and alliance with bits of it, and lifelong enmity towards other parts. still, judging its value as a whole or in part is so difficult as to be misleading. let's say robert wyatt is my janet jackson - it would be as rude of me to force others to listen to wyatt as it is of others to make me listen to janet. certainly i read this list and work with linux audio tools while my roommates watch people shoot at each other on the tv. i don't think i'm any better than those guys - in fact, i wish i were as easily amused. i must take the canonized developer's attitude on this. don't like our culture? submit a bug report, or learn to code a patch. yours in america, proud land of harry partch and kurt vonnegut, dan -- dan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx dan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx daneasley@xxxxxxxxx http://towndowner.com http://burntpossum.com