> >I guess you know swfs can be produced nicely from php? > > no i didnt! do you have a url about this? start with the online manual at php.net(?) "Chapter LVII. Ming functions for Flash" its script only of course tho, no gui. But due to the excellent nesting of swfs you can use php in combination with regular bitmap/vector apps. not sure if its up your street, but it works well for me. Php rocks! -- Tim Orford