----- On Apr 1, 2018, at 12:13 PM, One Thousand Gnomes gnomes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 12:05:23 -0400 > Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Expose a new system call allowing each thread to register one userspace >> memory area to be used as an ABI between kernel and user-space for two >> purposes: user-space restartable sequences and quick access to read the >> current CPU number value from user-space. > > What is the *worst* case timing achievable by using the atomics ? What > does it do to real time performance requirements ? Given that there are two system calls introduced in this series (rseq and cpu_opv), can you clarify which system call you refer to in the two questions above ? For rseq, given that its userspace works pretty much like a read seqlock (it retries on failure), it has no impact whatsoever on scheduler behavior. So characterizing its worst case timing does not appear to be relevant. > For cpu_opv you now > give an answer but your answer is assuming there isn't another thread > actively thrashing the cache or store buffers, and that the user didn't > sneakily pass in a page of uncacheable memory (eg framebuffer, or GPU > space). Are those considered as device pages ? > > I don't see anything that restricts it to cached pages. With that check > in place for x86 at least it would probably be ok and I think the sneaky > attacks to make it uncacheable would fail becuase you've got the pages > locked so trying to give them to an accelerator will block until you are > done. > > I still like the idea it's just the latencies concern me. Indeed, cpu_opv touches pages that are shared with user-space with preemption off, so this one affects the scheduler latency. The worse-case timings I measured for cpu_opv were with cache-cold memory. So I expect that another thread actively trashing the cache would be in the same ballpark figure. It does not account for a concurrent thread thrashing the store buffers though. The checks enforcing which pages can be touched by cpu_opv operations are done within cpu_op_check_page(). is_zone_device_page() is used to ensure no device page is touched with preempt disabled. I understand that you would prefer to disallow pages of uncacheable memory as well, which I'm fine with. Is there an API similar to is_zone_device_page() to check whether a page is uncacheable ? > >> Restartable sequences are atomic with respect to preemption >> (making it atomic with respect to other threads running on the >> same CPU), as well as signal delivery (user-space execution >> contexts nested over the same thread). > > CPU generally means 'big lump with legs on it'. You are not atomic to the > same CPU, because that CPU may have 30+ cores with 8 threads per core. > > It could do with some better terminology (hardware thread, CPU context ?) Would you be OK with Christoph's terminology of "Hardware Execution Context" ? > >> In a typical usage scenario, the thread registering the rseq >> structure will be performing loads and stores from/to that >> structure. It is however also allowed to read that structure >> from other threads. The rseq field updates performed by the >> kernel provide relaxed atomicity semantics, which guarantee >> that other threads performing relaxed atomic reads of the cpu >> number cache will always observe a consistent value. > > So what happens to your API if the kernel atomics get improved ? You are > effectively exporting rseq behaviour from private to public. Relaxed atomics is pretty much the loosest kind of consistency we can provide before we start allowing the compiler to do load/store tearing (it's basically a volatile store of a word-aligned word). It does not involve any kind of memory barrier whatsoever. I expect that the atomics that may evolve in the future will be those with release/acquire and implicit barriers semantics. The relaxed atomicity does not cover any of these. Thanks, Mathieu > > Alan -- Mathieu Desnoyers EfficiOS Inc. http://www.efficios.com -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-api" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
