On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 17:39:02 +1000 Dave Chinner <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 11:53:11AM +1000, Nicholas Piggin wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 07:34:36 +1000 > > Dave Chinner <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > But let me understand your example in the absence of that. > > > > - Application mmaps a file, faults in block 0 > > - FS allocates block, creates mappings, syncs metadata, sets "no fsync" > > flag for that block, and completes the fault. > > - Application writes some data to block 0, completes userspace flushes > > > > * At this point, a crash must return with above data (or newer). > > > > - Application starts writing more stuff into block 0 > > - Concurrently, fault in block 1 > > - FS starts to allocate, splits trees including mappings to block 0 > > > > * Crash > > > > Is that right? > > No. > > - app write faults block 0, fs allocates > < time passes while app does stuff to block 0 mapping > > - fs syncs journal, block 0 metadata now persistent > < time passes while app does stuff to block 0 mapping > > - app structure grows, faults block 1, fs allocates > - app adds pointers to data in block 1 from block 0, does > userspace pmem data sync. > > *crash* > > > How does your filesystem lose data before the sync > > point? > > After recovery, file has a data in block 0, but no block 1 because > the allocation transaction for block 1 was not flushed to the > journal. Data in block 0 points to data in block 1, but block 1 does > not exist. IOWs, the application has corrupt data because it never > issued a data synchronisation request to the filesystem.... > > ---- > > Ok, looking back over your example, you seem to be suggesting a new > page fault behaviour is required from filesystems that has not been > described or explained, and that behaviour is triggered > (persistently) somehow from userspace. You've also suggested > filesystems store a persistent per-block "no fsync" flag > in their extent map as part of the implementation. Right? This is what we're talking about. Of course a filesystem can't just start supporting the feature without any changes. > Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that the "no fsync" flag has > very specific update semantics, constraints and requirements. Can > you outline how you expect this flag to be set and updated, how it's > used consistently between different applications (e.g. cp of a file > vs the app using the file), behavioural constraints it implies for > page faults vs non-mmap access to the data in the block, how > you'd expect filesystems to deal with things like a hole punch > landing in the middle of an extent marked with "no fsync", etc? Well that's what's being discussed. An approach close to what I did is to allow the app request a "no sync" type of mmap. Filesystem will invalidate all such mappings before it does buffered IOs or hole punch, and will sync metadata after allocating a new block but before returning from a fault. The app could query rather than request, but I found request seemed to work better. The filesystem might be working with apps that don't use the feature for example, and doesn't want to flush just in case any one ever queried in the past. > [snip] > > > If there is any huge complexity or unsolved problem, it is in XFS. > > Conceptual problem is simple. > > Play nice and be constructive, please? So you agree that the persistent memory people who have come with some requirements and ideas for an API should not be immediately shut down with bogus handwaving. Thanks, Nick -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe kvm" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
