Martin (KDE) posted on Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:14:18 +0200 as excerpted: > Mutt is nice if you have a command line only. But not a mail client you > can give an inexperienced user. I've never used mutt personally, but while I'm reasonably comfortable with the command-line and would likely adapt reasonably quickly to the command-line for mail if I needed to (FWIW, kmail orphaned by akonadi now on claws-mail myself, as regulars know given how happy I've been with it and thus my recommendation of it), mutt is said to have one VERY MAJOR FLAW for my usage: Mutt depends on the still POSIX standard but inefficient and now considered legacy on Linux filesystem atime timestamps to track read-mail. Updating the atime anytime a file is accessed can be quite expensive indeed in terms of filesystem i/o, thus the modern kernel default of "relatime", updating it only the first time it's accessed in a day. But btrfs' copy-on-write (COW) semantics, coupled with its COW-based snapshots, are set to make the problem MUCH WORSE. Normally, COW-based snapshots are quite space-efficient, only taking up additional space where the data has changed between snapshots or between a snapshot and current. But atime updates throw a wrench in things, because that means every time a file is accessed, its metadata has changed. Now, consider what happens if you do a filesystem-wide grep, accessing all files in the process -- that's right, with traditional atime updates on access, 100% of the filesystem's metadata just got COWed! Now consider the effect even with relatime (once-per-day atime updates) if that filesystem has a snapshotting script taking daily snapshots. *NOW* consider the effect if for instance KDE's semantic-desktop is on, scanning everything daily or so to maintain its semantic-indexes! That's right, the effect ends up being 100% metadata duplication with each daily snapshot! Talk about a way to use up those multi-terabyte disks! So there's some discussion of for instance setting noatime by default for btrfs. That's going to break mutt, and a few other long outdated apps still relying on atime. Another alternative would be recording atime separate from the rest of the metadata, so only the atimes will be updated, not 100% of the metadata, and this is very possibly what they'll do. However, it's becoming increasingly apparent that atime simply doesn't fit in the modern filesystem setup, killing efficiency and reducing robustness especially for otherwise read-only task-sets. And as I said, mutt is infamous among filesystem devs (and the distro folks that decide default mount-options for the distro as well) as one of the few apps that still depends on atime. For quite some years now, I've run my systems with the noatime option for on-disk filesystems (I don't bother with virtual/memory-based filesystems like sysfs, tmpfs, devtmpfs, etc, so they stay at the kernel default relatime). Thus, mutt would be broken on my system. -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman ___________________________________________________ This message is from the kde mailing list. Account management: https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde. Archives: http://lists.kde.org/. More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.