Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@xxxxxxx> posted pan.2009.07.21.05.17.08@xxxxxxx,
excerpted below, on Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:17:09 +0000:
>> The only thing I can tell you is that KDE4 depends on NetworkManager.
>> I don't know for sure, but I think that it uses this to find network
>> connections. This has a daemon "NetworkManager" and it will normally
>> show as "sleeping" in KSysGuard.
>>
>> I would first check to see that that process has been started, and if
>> it isn't, then reinstall the binary for "NetworkManager".
>
> That was my suspicion. I haven't yet confirmed it, but I expect we're
> both correct in our speculative mapping, here.
[Slept a couple hours, so I can think again at least.]
Ugh! If I turn on USE=networkmanager for solid, it (of course) brings in
networkmanager as a dependency. So far, so good, BUT...
But networkmanager pulls in a bunch of /other/ absolutely nonsense
dependencies. Why on /earth/ should I need wpa_supplicant on a wired-
network-only desktop/workstation system? Why on /earth/ should I need
ppp on a standard IP/Ethernet wired system? Why on /earth/ should I need
wireless-tools? It also pulls in libnl, which Gentoo defines as "a
library for applications dealing with netlink socket." I'm not exactly
sure what that is all about, but I suppose that might be a legitimate
Ethernet-only-network dependency, at least, unlike the others. Finally,
it pulls in policykit, which I've seen mentioned various times in various
places, but haven't yet had to worry about, so know little about it. But
I suspect that's a legitimate dependency for a networkmanager, so it can
properly control the appropriate permissions.
Need I remind people that every unnecessary installed package is not only
additional maintenance load (particularly on a from-source distribution,
where such things count), but ALSO additional potential security vulns
that otherwise wouldn't affect that particular installation? Why on
/earth/ should I be expected to install otherwise unnecessary wireless
and ppp packages on an Ethernet-only connected system, just to get
Ethernet-only network monitoring?
OK, so now question one is does kde network monitoring /really/ depend on
networkmanager or is that simply something linked in for those binary
distributions that can't be bothered to provide a non-networkmanager
linked solid for those who don't need it? That I don't yet know the
answer to... yet.
If the answer to that question is that it's really required, question two
is does networkmanager /really/ require those additional wireless and ppp
packages for standard Ethernet/IP/wired-only network connected systems,
or again, are those bogus dependencies only linked in by binary
distributions that can't be bothered to provide a separate wired-Ethernet-
only version?
Thus, ultimately the question becomes where's the bug? Because there's
DEFINITELY a bug SOMEWHERE if I have to install wireless and ppp packages
on a standard Ethernet/IP/wired-only connected desktop, just to get kde
network monitoring for that standard Ethernet/IP/wired-only connection!
If the answer to #1 is that networkmanager is indeed required, it's not
some other issue, AND the answer to #2 is that network manager does
indeed require those wireless and ppp packages, THEN the bug is KDE's,
since ultimately requiring wireless and ppp packages as a dependency of
simply monitoring standard IP wired network traffic is simply nonsense.
There may be a secondary bug as well, if networkmanager is purposed at
general network support, including on wired-only systems, since in that
case it's a dependency that shouldn't be mandatory in the first place.
But regardless of whether networkmanager is intended for that or not, if
it's requiring it, then it's a bug for KDE to be depending on
networkmanager for simple wired network monitoring, since the second-
level requirement is known.
If the answer to #1 is that network manager is indeed required, but the
answer to #2 is that networkmanager does NOT have a mandatory compile-
time dependency on wireless, THEN the bug is Gentoo's (on the
networkmanager package), for not splitting that dependency out on
USE=wireless and USE=ppp or some such.
Of course, if the answer to #1 is that network manager is NOT required,
then we still have to discover what IS required that I don't have, and
why I don't have it. THAT may be a Gentoo dependency bug, or a KDE
dependency bug, or a bug due simply to my specific config, or a different
bug related to some other package.
The next question is where to go from here. Will it be easier to simply
install all that crap and see if it fixes the problem, or to go diving
into source config options for networkmanager, to see if there's a way to
turn off the wireless and ppp stuff in its compile time configure, that
Gentoo missed.
Meh... I'm tired, if I do it right now I'll just let the machine do the
work and then test the results... but I'm going to do a kernel update
first and see if the bug I have filed there is fixed (tho it hasn't been
closed, but who knows, maybe it got fixed in the normal process and all I
have to do is update, test, and mark the bug as fixed), then a general
package update. Who knows, maybe Gentoo's included some upstream kde
patches by now too. Or maybe I'll decide to screw kde 4.2.4 and try the
latest 4.3 rc and see what that might have fixed.
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
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